Gejitchi
Well-known member
Hello! I'm sure, at first, this document seems daunting. However, I've been thinking about this issue lately and, as someone who predominantly downloads, I have now considered the repercussions of doing so. So, I would love to hear what TT has to say on the subject. If you're fairly knowledgeable, just skip down to the Arguments for/against section and discuss away! For the rest of you, go ahead and read at least the arguments, preferably along with the Premise. All of you can probably skip the Definition of terms, but it's there just in case.
[SIZE=10pt]I. Definition of Terms[/SIZE]
For those of you familiar with anime and the fansubbing scene, many of this stuff will seem familiar. For those of you not familiar, though, here's some lingo you'll be encountering from herein:
Fansub - A fansub is an anime that has been translated by--you guessed it--fans. These people, pretty much always in groups, will obtain "raws" of anime episodes, movies or OVAs shown in Japan and then translate them for viewing in english. They then "sub" (add subtitles) to the "raw" and offer it for download over bittorrent. They do this for free.
Raws - The original anime, still in Japanese.
Bittorrent - This is the main way fansubbed anime is spread. If you've got some time or are interested in the technical aspects of the network, head over to the wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bittorrent
Basically, though, it is this: A single file (.torrent) holds a hash and tracker information that allows the user to connect to several "peers." It is read by a bittorrent client. There are two types of peers: Leechers and Seeders. A Seeder is only uploading the file. A leecher is downloading the file, usually while uploading it at the same time--bittorrent is ingenious in that will evenly distribute the bits of the file so that other peers can fill your holes. For an example, say your downloading a file, and there's one seeder and one other leecher. Well, the seeder will distribute the first half to the other peer and the second half to you so that you can download from the seeder and the leecher at the same time and vise versa. You don't download files from one central server with bittorrent--you download from several other people. It is up to the community to share the files.
[SIZE=10pt]II. Premise[/SIZE]
Here on TamaTalk we have a pretty big fanbase of anime and manga--it seems that at times "Stuff We Watch" may as well be relabeled "Anime We Watch." In this day an age where the internet offers almost any kind of media for free via the Gnutella network (limewire), Bittorrent, Usenet, rapidshare/megaupload/depositfiles/etc., the question of ethics, downloading, licensing, et al. come up almost inevitably. I know there has been topics on this in the past--"do you download or buy?" and so on. However, I'd like to take a look into why we do it, why we rationalize it, and ultimately, if what we're doing is right or wrong.
Greg Ayres (some may groan at the mentioning of the name) has been doing this panel for a while on fansubbing and the state of the Anime industry. I won't say whether he's right or wrong (that's what we're here to discuss!), but he definitely represents the industry's side--don't download, fansubbing is wrong, be patient, et cetera. He says a lot more than I could say here, so go ahead and watch that if you want the down-low on the industry's side--it's long, but it's separated by topic so you can just view the hotspots.
//www.tamatalk.com/IB/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png
Anyway, here it goes:
That's it, basically. I know that it's a long and serious subject, and that it might even be better off in "Seriously (Non)Tamatalk" (for the sake of the integrity of the discussion, pretend it is.) but it's a pressing issue as the industry continues to waver, and it's got me wondering.
[SIZE=10pt]I. Definition of Terms[/SIZE]
For those of you familiar with anime and the fansubbing scene, many of this stuff will seem familiar. For those of you not familiar, though, here's some lingo you'll be encountering from herein:
Fansub - A fansub is an anime that has been translated by--you guessed it--fans. These people, pretty much always in groups, will obtain "raws" of anime episodes, movies or OVAs shown in Japan and then translate them for viewing in english. They then "sub" (add subtitles) to the "raw" and offer it for download over bittorrent. They do this for free.
Raws - The original anime, still in Japanese.
Bittorrent - This is the main way fansubbed anime is spread. If you've got some time or are interested in the technical aspects of the network, head over to the wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bittorrent
Basically, though, it is this: A single file (.torrent) holds a hash and tracker information that allows the user to connect to several "peers." It is read by a bittorrent client. There are two types of peers: Leechers and Seeders. A Seeder is only uploading the file. A leecher is downloading the file, usually while uploading it at the same time--bittorrent is ingenious in that will evenly distribute the bits of the file so that other peers can fill your holes. For an example, say your downloading a file, and there's one seeder and one other leecher. Well, the seeder will distribute the first half to the other peer and the second half to you so that you can download from the seeder and the leecher at the same time and vise versa. You don't download files from one central server with bittorrent--you download from several other people. It is up to the community to share the files.
[SIZE=10pt]II. Premise[/SIZE]
Here on TamaTalk we have a pretty big fanbase of anime and manga--it seems that at times "Stuff We Watch" may as well be relabeled "Anime We Watch." In this day an age where the internet offers almost any kind of media for free via the Gnutella network (limewire), Bittorrent, Usenet, rapidshare/megaupload/depositfiles/etc., the question of ethics, downloading, licensing, et al. come up almost inevitably. I know there has been topics on this in the past--"do you download or buy?" and so on. However, I'd like to take a look into why we do it, why we rationalize it, and ultimately, if what we're doing is right or wrong.
Greg Ayres (some may groan at the mentioning of the name) has been doing this panel for a while on fansubbing and the state of the Anime industry. I won't say whether he's right or wrong (that's what we're here to discuss!), but he definitely represents the industry's side--don't download, fansubbing is wrong, be patient, et cetera. He says a lot more than I could say here, so go ahead and watch that if you want the down-low on the industry's side--it's long, but it's separated by topic so you can just view the hotspots.
//www.tamatalk.com/IB/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png
Anyway, here it goes:
- "By releasing fansubs before the licenses can be secured, so called "fans" are essentially eliminating the possibility of a USA release because everyone will have already seen the product." Is this true? What about the people who claim they'll buy it if they like it? What about the opportunities for merchandizing?
- "The Anime industry can NOT survive alone on Japan. 9 years ago it nearly collapsed, and it was the American industry that shouldered the burden and kept the industry alive." Is this mere doomsday speak to scare fans into purchasing the product, or are these arguments legitimate? Are the unsure states of companies like Geneon indicators that the industry is in danger?
- "There are now more ways than ever to sample anime--free previews and downloads, TV, conventions, reviews, et cetera. A knowledgeable consumer can easily sample a TON of anime legally and make an educated decision as a consumer."
- "Purchasing Anime is now more convenient than ever. Legal downloads are available online." Will people buy the anime because it is "right" morally when (nearly) the same thing is available for free?
- "Subs are professionally done FOR MONEY by official localization teams, and therefore are more polished and well done. There's also bonuses like dubs." Is it worth the money?
- "Bottom line--If you want anime, you have to pay for it so creators will make it. You aren't a 'fan' by having it first, you're a fan by supporting the people who make it so they can continue to be prolific." This is an indisputable fact, honestly--but how much will the industry take before something drastic happens?
That's it, basically. I know that it's a long and serious subject, and that it might even be better off in "Seriously (Non)Tamatalk" (for the sake of the integrity of the discussion, pretend it is.) but it's a pressing issue as the industry continues to waver, and it's got me wondering.
