Izzyd07

Same sex tama marriages

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It makes me sad that our tamagotchis can’t marry a tamagotchi of the same gender. I get why there was no same sex marriage on the older tamas, since the world was sadly much less accepting then, but now times have changed and I keep hoping that it will be introduced on the newer Japanese tamagotchis. However, it is not an option on either my M!x or Meets. Quite apart from anything else, this is disappointing as it limits the number of characters you can mix with according to your tama’s gender.

I KNOW that in irl species you need a male and a female to make a baby (I’m a grown adult ;) ), but we are talking about pixels here! Tamagotchis don’t even pretend to be modeled after real animals, like cats and dogs. They are goofy little aliens and if Bandai chose they could definitely programme in same sex marriages and breeding. 

Take The Sims 4, for example. You can now have two sims of the same sex have a baby together - heck, you can even have male pregnancies! And, sims are meant to be modeled after humans, for whom this most definitely isn’t possible. If Sims can do it, tamas can do it - Bandai should recognise that it’s 2018 (almost 2019)!

What do you guys think? Is this a feature you’d like?

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I mean, two cis males can't have babies together without outside help? Same with two cis females.
I guess there is the argument that tamagotchi aren't human or even from earth.
But I don't really see a need for same sex marriage in tamagotchi? And this is coming from the person who plays a gay character in every game possible.

So no, not a feature I'd care for.

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53 minutes ago, Izayah said:

I mean, two cis males can't have babies together without outside help? Same with two cis females.
I guess there is the argument that tamagotchi aren't human or even from earth.
But I don't really see a need for same sex marriage in tamagotchi? And this is coming from the person who plays a gay character in every game possible.

So no, not a feature I'd care for.

Please see the bold sections of my OP:

6 hours ago, Izzyd07 said:

It makes me sad that our tamagotchis can’t marry a tamagotchi of the same gender. I get why there was no same sex marriage on the older tamas, since the world was sadly much less accepting then, but now times have changed and I keep hoping that it will be introduced on the newer Japanese tamagotchis. However, it is not an option on either my M!x or Meets. Quite apart from anything else, this is disappointing as it limits the number of characters you can mix with according to your tama’s gender.

I KNOW that in irl species you need a male and a female to make a baby (I’m a grown adult ;) ), but we are talking about pixels here! Tamagotchis don’t even pretend to be modeled after real animals, like cats and dogs. They are goofy little aliens and if Bandai chose they could definitely programme in same sex marriages and breeding. 

Take The Sims 4, for example. You can now have two sims of the same sex have a baby together - heck, you can even have male pregnancies! And, sims are meant to be modeled after humans, for whom this most definitely isn’t possible. If Sims can do it, tamas can do it - Bandai should recognise that it’s 2018 (almost 2019)!

What do you guys think? Is this a feature you’d like?

Just to clarify: same sex pregnancies in sims and even specifically male pregnancies in sims require no “outside intervention”. 

Really I see no downsides to Bandai allowing same sex tama marriages and breeding. But, positives would come of it: more potential partners for your tama to mix with, encouragement of equality and an accepting mindset (of themselves and others) in young kids...

Edited by Izzyd07

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Personally, I don't think it's a feature I'd be interested in.  In fact, if Bandai went out of their way to offer same-sex marriage/reproduction for Tamagotchis I would probably be annoyed more than anything else.  I see a lot of companies promoting non-traditional lifestyles lately and it kinda makes me sick, to be honest.  Not that I have a problem with people who are gay or trans or any other minority, that's not the issue.  The issue for me is that when I see businesses shouting from the rooftops how tolerant they are, it seems sooooo sickeningly obvious that they're not making these changes to make sure everyone feels included.  They're announcing their new found values to look good, to gain brownie points, for attention.  And, if it happens to help a few people feel included along the way, great!  But I really don't believe that's their primary objective.  And I feel offended on behalf of whatever group of people a company is using to boost their sales and reputation.  

Plus, Tamagotchi isn't the most popular product in western countries and not all countries are as, ahem, "progressive" as us.  I think Bandai focuses their marketing towards their biggest purchasers, globally speaking.  So it probably doesn't make sense to add such a feature when a majority of their market may not approve of the change.  

I guess if the feature just suddenly became available and Bandai wasn't making a big spectacle out of it I wouldn't mind.  How would you go about reproduction?  Would same-sex couples still be able to have a baby?  Would there be, like, an adoption option?  Or, if you chose to arrange your tama with a tama of the same sex would your generations end there and you'd get to watch your couple be happy together and eventually die? 

OP, what are your thoughts on how that would work?

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1 hour ago, cbotable said:

Personally, I don't think it's a feature I'd be interested in.  In fact, if Bandai went out of their way to offer same-sex marriage/reproduction for Tamagotchis I would probably be annoyed more than anything else.  I see a lot of companies promoting non-traditional lifestyles lately and it kinda makes me sick, to be honest.  Not that I have a problem with people who are gay or trans or any other minority, that's not the issue.  The issue for me is that when I see businesses shouting from the rooftops how tolerant they are, it seems sooooo sickeningly obvious that they're not making these changes to make sure everyone feels included.  They're announcing their new found values to look good, to gain brownie points, for attention.  And, if it happens to help a few people feel included along the way, great!  But I really don't believe that's their primary objective.  And I feel offended on behalf of whatever group of people a company is using to boost their sales and reputation.  

Plus, Tamagotchi isn't the most popular product in western countries and not all countries are as, ahem, "progressive" as us.  I think Bandai focuses their marketing towards their biggest purchasers, globally speaking.  So it probably doesn't make sense to add such a feature when a majority of their market may not approve of the change.  

I guess if the feature just suddenly became available and Bandai wasn't making a big spectacle out of it I wouldn't mind.  How would you go about reproduction?  Would same-sex couples still be able to have a baby?  Would there be, like, an adoption option?  Or, if you chose to arrange your tama with a tama of the same sex would your generations end there and you'd get to watch your couple be happy together and eventually die? 

OP, what are your thoughts on how that would work?

That’s a rather pessimistic view of Bandai’s motivations were they to implement this. I mean, I’d hope that in this day and age companies are not being “tolerant”, as that carries the implication that gay individuals are something unsavoury that they are “putting up with”. To me, the fact that there are gay people is just something which is part of normal life. By adding homosexual marriages to their products, Bandai would merely be including something which is now a quite unexceptionable feature of their consumers’ lives. (Also: if businesses giving equal consideration to the importance and preferences of heterosexual and gay people constitutes “businesses shouting from the rooftops how tolerant they are”, then I’m all for it!).

I think the key point here is to highlight that if Bandai allowed us to CHOOSE to marry our tamagotchi to a tamagotchi of the same gender, this would be OUR CHOICE. A choice which we could CHOOSE to ignore. Don’t want your boy tama to marry another boy? No problem! Just don’t use the feature. Currently, we don’t have the choice to have our tamas engage in a same sex marriage, which limits the options of those who might like that. Adding this choice would not take anything away, nor would it force people to use it. But, not having the choice does compel us to marry a tamagotchi of the opposite gender, which unfairly ignores the preferences of those of us who would like our tamas to be able to marry a partner of the same gender. Surely what gay people want is just as important as what heterosexual people want?

To be quite honest, I’m not sure why you think the majority of Bandai’s audience would disapprove. I just brought up the point that adding the choice wouldn’t compel people to use it. And, I’ve already mentioned the Sims 4 a number of times in this thread, but it’s worth doing so again in this context: the option for same sex couples to try for a baby in the Sims 4 was welcomed very warmly when it was recently introduced. The majority of players really like the feature and those who don’t want to use it, quite simply don’t use it. So, I don’t know why there is likely to be a different reaction here. Besides, if there are people who would disapprove of Baindai giving gay people’s preferences equal consideration with those of heterosexual people, then I think this says more about those complaining than it does about the correctness of implementing it!

As to how it would work, I pictured same sex tama marriage/breeding happening in exactly the same way as opposite sex tama marriage/breeding currently works. They marry and make an egg together which grows up to be a tamagotchi with features which are a mix of its parents’ features. Can two real animals of the same sex reproduce in this way? No. Does this matter for an alien virtual pet which doesn’t aim at realism? I would say no. As I’ve already said, in the Sims 4 (where the player controls virtual human beings), we have the option to have a same sex couple try for a baby in the same way as heterosexual couples do and even male pregnancy. The world has not ended as a result.

Sure, same sex couples irl can’t make a baby in the way that straight couples can, but many of them wish they could. We’d remove this boundary in real life if we could (hell, scientists are actually researching how same sex couples could make a baby which is genetically the child of each partner), so why not remove them in games, where we can easily do so and where realism is not our target?

ETA: Who even knows how tama “breeding” happens anyway? They’re aliens! Suddenly an egg appears on screen - maybe even in the case of male female tama breeding, their genetic info just gets scrambled externally to produce an egg.... In which case, it’s entirely plausible for the same process to occur with two tamas of the same sex.

Edited by Izzyd07

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7 hours ago, Izzyd07 said:

Please see the bold sections of my OP:

Just to clarify: same sex pregnancies in sims and even specifically male pregnancies in sims require no “outside intervention”. 

Really I see no downsides to Bandai allowing same sex tama marriages and breeding. But, positives would come of it: more potential partners for your tama to mix with, encouragement of equality and an accepting mindset (of themselves and others) in young kids...

Aliens is weak reasoning in my opinion for it to happen. And Tamagotchi aren't sims either.
I'm not against it, I just don't think it's necessary/something I care for.

"Bandai should recognise that it’s 2018 (almost 2019)!"

This, is equally weak reasoning.
So what it's 2018? That doesn't mean I want every toy/game hurriedly cramming in all the gay they can.

I love seeing gay representation (a Church near me has a lesbian pastor and that positively thrills me that someone gay can be successful in a religious space.) but I have no interest in same sex tamagotchi marriages.

TLDR
I personally don't care for same sex marriage in tamagotchi, and can't see it happening.
If that's what you want, fine.

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I would not care for this either. 

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Reading all this has made me think - and I guess I'm of the same opinion as OP where I assume they're aliens and get annoyed when i can't mix my tama with the tamas I want to. However, I agree with comments further down that talk about the majority target market (japan) not being overly pleased or giving a dang about gay marriages...

 

So I guess I'm thinking in a different direction -- you know how modern tamagotchi don't have a weight statistic? What if we have a release of a generation without a gender statistic?

 

You can marry whichever tama to whoever, and pretend it's straight or gay or whatever you like- there would still be tama with feminine traits or masculine traits, like eyelashes n s**t, but they wouldn't stop you from marrying your tama to whichever tama you wanted. 

I actually think this would be easily possible for bandai to do, and wouldn't cause a huge stir or stand out or upset any people really. There wouldn't be any new functions or any worry about "can gay couples have kids" politics coz it would just be "all tamagotchi can mate".

What do you think?

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6 hours ago, Izayah said:

Aliens is weak reasoning in my opinion for it to happen. And Tamagotchi aren't sims either.
I'm not against it, I just don't think it's necessary/something I care for.

"Bandai should recognise that it’s 2018 (almost 2019)!"

This, is equally weak reasoning.
So what it's 2018? That doesn't mean I want every toy/game hurriedly cramming in all the gay they can.

I love seeing gay representation (a Church near me has a lesbian pastor and that positively thrills me that someone gay can be successful in a religious space.) but I have no interest in same sex tamagotchi marriages.

TLDR
I personally don't care for same sex marriage in tamagotchi, and can't see it happening.
If that's what you want, fine.

I think a lot of what I said to cbotable is relevant, so I’ll copy and paste some of what I said in this post:

What I meant by bringing in sims is that Sims are meant to be humans and yet same sex pregnancies are possible in sims. Humans definitely can’t have same sex pregnancies irl, but alien species might be able to. Tamagotchis are meant to be alien species. So, it’s silly to argue that same sex pregnancies shouldn’t be allowed for tamas because it’s not possible for humans irl.

Who even knows how tama “breeding” happens anyway? They’re aliens! Suddenly an egg appears on screen - maybe even in the case of male female tama breeding, their genetic info just gets scrambled externally to produce an egg.... In which case, it’s entirely plausible for the same process to occur with two tamas of the same sex.

Although same sex couples irl can’t make a baby in the way that straight couples can, many of them wish they could. We’d remove this boundary in real life if we could (hell, scientists are actually researching how same sex couples could make a baby which is genetically the child of each partner), so why not remove them in games, where we can easily do so and where realism is not our target?

I suppose by saying it’s 2018 I was just pointing out that the World is not a homophobic place anymore. It wasn’t meant to be any sort of reasoning, just a fact.

think the key point here is to highlight that if Bandai allowed us to CHOOSE to marry our tamagotchi to a tamagotchi of the same gender, this would be OUR CHOICE. A choice which we could CHOOSE to ignore. Don’t want your boy tama to marry another boy? No problem! Just don’t use the feature. Currently, we don’t have the choice to have our tamas engage in a same sex marriage, which limits the options of those who might like that. Adding this choice would not take anything away, nor would it force people to use it. But, not having the choice does compel us to marry a tamagotchi of the opposite gender, which unfairly ignores the preferences of those of us who would like our tamas to be able to marry a partner of the same gender. Surely what gay people want is just as important as what heterosexual people want?

It’s a little silly to protest loudly against a choice being introduced which you wouldn’t have to use, but which many gay people might be very glad of. Introducing the choice would give equal consideration to the preferences of gay and heterosexual people by allowing either gay or heterosexual marriages, without forcing straight people to use the option if they chose not to. Even if you wouldn’t personally want to use the feature, surely that alone is a reason to want it introduced?

Introducing gay marriage in real life gave people the option to marry someone of the opposite gender or same gender. It didn’t hurt straight people because it literally does not affect them - they can continue on marrying people of the opposite gender. But, it did greatly benefit gay people by giving them the same right as straight people already had - the right to marry the person that they want to. A similar argument applies to tamas: introducing same sex marriage would be a positive thing for those who want their tamas to have same sex marriages without at all impacting those who only want their tamas to marry tamas of the same gender. It would seem odd to say that the  introduction of an option that you don’t have to use would negatively affect you. Therefore, it would have a positive effect on those who want the feature and a negative effect on no one. 

 

Edited by Izzyd07

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49 minutes ago, Itchigotchi2 said:

Reading all this has made me think - and I guess I'm of the same opinion as OP where I assume they're aliens and get annoyed when i can't mix my tama with the tamas I want to. However, I agree with comments further down that talk about the majority target market (japan) not being overly pleased or giving a dang about gay marriages...

 

So I guess I'm thinking in a different direction -- you know how modern tamagotchi don't have a weight statistic? What if we have a release of a generation without a gender statistic?

 

You can marry whichever tama to whoever, and pretend it's straight or gay or whatever you like- there would still be tama with feminine traits or masculine traits, like eyelashes n s**t, but they wouldn't stop you from marrying your tama to whichever tama you wanted. 

I actually think this would be easily possible for bandai to do, and wouldn't cause a huge stir or stand out or upset any people really. There wouldn't be any new functions or any worry about "can gay couples have kids" politics coz it would just be "all tamagotchi can mate".

What do you think?

That would be an interesting idea too! Then the player could decide (in their head) whether they wanted their tama to be a boy, girl or neither. I’d be open to this, although I think Bandai less likely to get rid of gender than they are to introduce same sex marriages, since it’d be a more drastic change.

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The older tamas didn't have a gender assignment, so that would be OK. 

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I have no interest in same sex marriage for my tamagotchi, either. If anything, I kind of enjoy the parameters set by the gender. Japan isn’t the west. They have a different set of rules and some things aren’t as important there as they maybe in other societies. No matter the current year, Japan is Japan. It’ll always march to the beat of a different drummer and the tamagotchi is a product of that. We should also remember that these toys aren’t made for western adults, but young Japanese girls. There’s no obligation for Bandai to do anything different from what they’ve already been doing, as it’s been successful for their target audience.

While gender wasn’t a thing back in the day, the whole ‘marry them to get rare Tama genetics’ wasn’t a thing either (and I kinda miss the ‘weight’ category). Since new Tamas are hatched from eggs, I’d say they’re closer to animals. There’s also the words used for both genders/sexes. In the M!x, it says めす for girls and おす for boys. Both terms are identifiers for gender/sex but they’re exclusively used for animals. They only exist within the world of Tamagotchi and that means there isn’t a need to change anything about how they already function, since it’s not mimicking any particular values or beliefs of our society. 

Adding something like this could create problems in terms of what Bandai decides to include and what they don't. For example, if they were to include the same sex marriage function, something that would cater to a minority of their user base, what would happen if someone wanted to have their race represented? While they aren’t humans, there are characters like Santaclautchi who have a distinctly human appearance. Something like this could force Bandai to take a position on certain issues (i.e. morals and politics) that Japanese companies usually try to stay away from. I applaud those companies for remaining neutral as it causes less conflict. Not including something is different than speaking out against it and does not harm anyone or their feelings.

The idea of ‘if you don’t like a feature, you don’t have to use it’ could also be applied in the reverse. If you want your tamagotchi to be able to marry the same gender/sex but that isn’t available, you don’t have to buy or use them. If the west is anything to go by, the option for same sex marriage won’t just be available, it’ll be advertised as the only worthwhile feature in that iteration. This could definitely alienate people who don’t agree with that lifestyle choice and it’s still a point of contention for many. Japan is a society that puts emphasis on the group, not the individual.

I don’t usually care about stuff like this but I don’t think it’s right to compare apples to oranges. The U.S., as an example, and Japan should never be compared on stuff like this because they’re two completely different countries. Both have their own set of values, history, morals, politics and ways of operation. Just because one country does X doesn’t mean all other countries should follow along. Values and such are all subjective. If I were born in a different country, many things I believe would probably be different but that wouldn’t make my current values either right or wrong. If you want it fine, if you don’t fine. I just don’t think it’s fair to paint a company in a negative light because they don’t add a feature to a children’s game. Enjoy it for what it is. However, this is just my opinion ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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I'd vote for removal of gender in the toy altogether. I mean, it's not necessary. I think the child deciding what gender they would like their character to be adds more to creativity and imagination (really don't like the feature of new Hatchimals for example, where you not only just hatch it but also learn its gender. Why can't the child just decide for themselves). Besides, it's not like any of the tamagotchi characters gets pregnant after getting married, the egg just... appears. And not like designs matter, the nature of the M!X makes for very androgynous looking characters, anyway. Plus, it would be loads, loads better than them deciding to make Chamametchi an adult in a few color versions.... Ewww. She's a CHILD in the anime, people!

Iirc Gudetama in Sanrio M!X is genderless, yet most people assume Gudetama is male for some reason, so I mean, it wouldn't be all that shocking to implement. And it wouldn't go "against nature" either- there are various species of animals that can mate and produce offspring regardless of sex, most notably the Mexican whiptail lizard, whose species is all female. Let's not forget that tamagotchi characters are... fully sentient aliens.

I kind of not like bringing up Japanese values here, though. Yes, Japan is not the west. But LGBT is not... a "western" idea. It exists everywhere. I live in a country that's even more conservative than Japan, yet we are considered the "west" too. It's worth noting that Japanese people are not much into the idea of marriage altogether anymore, even heterosexual one, because married couples are literally looked down upon, ESPECIALLY women. Yet the government is pushing them to get married to produce children, because the society is getting old. Thus a lot of cis gay couples are publicly called "valueless". At the same time, there is a place in Tokyo that has the largest amounts of gay clubs in the world. 

Also... While yes, same sex pregnancies in humans are not possible (well, aside from the experiments regarding making biological children of two cis women possible, using bone marrow), let's not forget that transgender same gender couples with children exist. And Tamagotchi has dealt with subtle references to transgender people in the past (I consider UraZukyutchi one- yes, I know Ura characters are whole different characters, but I think the reference is there.) As for earlier Sims references, Sims 4 now has the option for any sim regardless of gender to be either able to impregnate others or get pregnant as a nod to transgender people, which is honestly the only reason I still play the game anymore.

Edited by Jhud
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Just add a little vignette where they find an abandoned egg and adopt it. I don’t see any issue. I just think it would be tacky if it were made into some weird statement. Tamagotchi is an escape from political issues for me...

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On 12/25/2018 at 6:42 PM, Jhud said:

(I consider UraZukyutchi one- yes, I know Ura characters are whole different characters, but I think the reference is there.)

Who is "UraZukyutchi?" I tried looking that Tamagotchi

up and could not find any results. Can you tell me more about what you think of that Tamagotchi, I'm just curious. : ) 

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This is "normal" Zukyutchi, a male character, found on the V4 and EnTama:

latest?cb=20150526150712

And this is Ura Zukyutchi, his female counterpart from the Uratama Town, found on the v4.5 and UraTama:

latest?cb=20141206050227

While Ura characters are separate from their "classic" counterparts, Ura Zukyutchi is the only one whose gender differs, and basically Ura characters seem to represent either their mirror images or what they are on the "inside". For example, Ura Mametchi is all about playing pranks while our Mametchi is serious, and Ura Kuchipatchi is hardworking, unlike the Kuchipatchi we know. However it doesn't seem to be that way when it comes to female characters - they seem to be just made more feminine and more "extreme". Ura Zukyutchi basically takes Zukyutchi's personality and overblows it, like with the female characters.

 

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On 12/23/2018 at 1:50 PM, Izzyd07 said:

It makes me sad that our tamagotchis can’t marry a tamagotchi of the same gender. I get why there was no same sex marriage on the older tamas, since the world was sadly much less accepting then, but now times have changed and I keep hoping that it will be introduced on the newer Japanese tamagotchis. However, it is not an option on either my M!x or Meets. Quite apart from anything else, this is disappointing as it limits the number of characters you can mix with according to your tama’s gender.

I KNOW that in irl species you need a male and a female to make a baby (I’m a grown adult ;) ), but we are talking about pixels here! Tamagotchis don’t even pretend to be modeled after real animals, like cats and dogs. They are goofy little aliens and if Bandai chose they could definitely programme in same sex marriages and breeding. 

Take The Sims 4, for example. You can now have two sims of the same sex have a baby together - heck, you can even have male pregnancies! And, sims are meant to be modeled after humans, for whom this most definitely isn’t possible. If Sims can do it, tamas can do it - Bandai should recognise that it’s 2018 (almost 2019)!

What do you guys think? Is this a feature you’d like?

I don't know if Bandai can do anything about that. Bandai would not listen to anyone's requests. The only thing they are good at is finding bullcrap excuses. 

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