A Few Questions - Respect / Religion / "Hate"

[PrivateSunshine]

Hi guys, normally I'm a relatively happy person, but I've been noticing a few problems lately... not with any of you, but with people in general, and I'd like to pose a few questions:
How many more people would be in your life if religion was totally out of the picture? How many more people would you respect, and would respect you, if everyone just focused on someone's character, rather than what they worship?
How many people have ousted you because you aren't of the same religion? How much hate do you get *just* because you're Muslim, Jewish, Spiritual Satanist, Christian, or even if you don't have any religion and are Atheist or Agnostic?

The reason I ask these questions is because I look at who people are as a whole. I let people into my life because I see the kind of person they are (or at least, I think I do). I like their posts, I like what they do in life, I like the kind of goals they have, all that. Religion has nothing to do with how much I respect a person.

That being said, why can't the same go for everyone else? I've been hurt more times than I'd like to admit just because I don't agree with the masses. Just because I'm not of a particular religion that that person would want me to be part of. I lose friends, I lose their respect, and many rumors are started about me just because of religion. I don't understand it.

I'm so sick of it. I've spent too long wondering what's wrong with me, when it's actually the rest of the world with the problem. Has anyone else experienced this?

Keep in mind, I'm not bashing religion. I'm quite religious myself. You do what you do with your life, and I do what I do with mine. I'm just tired of being hurt over and over again because my religion isn't "popular".

 

[Ashley Montanae]

I'd love to respond to this, but, I have Christian privilege. Still, the responses should be enlightening.

 

[Midorime]

I tend to take people at face value, not by religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc. I treat people with respect and I expect the same back. That being said, yes, I have been put down for not following the masses. When i went through my Wiccan phase, i was put down a lot in high school. (There's the problem, it was high school.) I even had adults later on tell me I would go to hell. I learned that they were not worth my time, breath, or energy. Last i heard, religion was 'supposedly' about loving others no matter the circumstances, but we all know that's a far cry form the truth. People have been slaughtered over religion and religious beliefs, even today. Tragic events even get picketed by religious people, look at the Westboro Church and what they've done. And I cannot even tell you how many people have tried to get me to change my mind and open up to the idea of some invisible man who supposedly has all the time in the universe to watch and micromanage our lives. So, I took up George Carlin's view of religion, because to me, in my eyes, he makes a point. (Do not watch the video if you're going to be offended by it.)




//www.tamatalk.com/IB/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png


Now, religion DOES teach morals and values, which is great and I respect that. It's an ideal that people strive for. A fear tactic, really--if you're not a good person, you go to hell sorta deal. Not the best idea in my opinion to keep people in line, but if it works, hey, then it works.

Regardless, though, I don't go around asking people's religion. i really don't care unless I'm trying to date because if I were to try to date a real religious dude, I know it'd never work because I just can't shut up and not challenge people's ways of thinking about it. And it's not because I'm trying to be rude, no no, I just am trying to understand and force people to think about it, which let's face it, people hate to think and would rather be sheeple and follow the masses. But i cannot tell you how many times people have randomly asked me if I believed in God, then went into a lecture about how I need to believe and yadda yadda when i tell them no.

That being said, in a nutshell, religion doesn't, in my opinion, define a person to exclude them from being an a**hole or not. As I said, i take people at face value.

And no, i am not trying to offend people here, I'm just stating how i feel. If you have a religion, that's peachy, just don't push it on others, okay?

 

[KERFUFFLE]

I think a lot of problems to do with religious intolerance are thanks to the media and how it reports on extremism and terrorism, for example. I've noticed here that people are incredibly suspicious and uncomfortable around Muslims following things like the London bombings and 9/11. The media failed to explain that these acts were carried out by extremists and that 99.9% of muslims also believe they were awful events. The same goes for Christianity; people who make it into the public eye are those with the extreme views, for example the Westboro Baptist church and people like Michele Bachmann who think watching the Disney movie Aladdin is encouraging witchcraft among children. People then develop this idea that all religious people act this way. I don't belong to any particular religion, but it really bothers me when some Atheists can't accept the value that it has to somebody else. It's fine not to believe or understand it, but to literally bash people on the head about it and tell them how ridiculous they are- things a couple of my religious friends have experienced in their philosophy classes-, is totally uncalled for. They then allow these views to completely govern their perception of the personality of a person even though it's totally irrelevant.

 

[Midorime]

I think a lot of problems to do with religious intolerance are thanks to the media and how it reports on extremism and terrorism, for example. I've noticed here that people are incredibly suspicious and uncomfortable around Muslims following things like the London bombings and 9/11. The media failed to explain that these acts were carried out by extremists and that 99.9% of muslims also believe they were awful events. The same goes for Christianity; people who make it into the public eye are those with the extreme views, for example the Westboro Baptist church and people like Michele Bachmann who think watching the Disney movie Aladdin is encouraging witchcraft among children. People then develop this idea that all religious people act this way. I don't belong to any particular religion, but it really bothers me when some Atheists can't accept the value that it has to somebody else. It's fine not to believe or understand it, but to literally bash people on the head about it and tell them how ridiculous they are- things a couple of my religious friends have experienced in their philosophy classes-, is totally uncalled for. They then allow these views to completely govern their perception of the personality of a person even though it's totally irrelevant.

Agreed. Religion does serve a purpose, and it has for hundreds to thousands of years. It's not all bad, but as you said, it's the extremists that make it 'bad.'

 

[ichiro.malfoy]

I've had to deal with these extremists when I was in elementary school.

I was enrolled in a Catholic school (no offense intended) and they were forcing all the beliefs and traditions to every student. As a non-Catholic, I was frequently being made fun of by most of my classmates for being in a different sect as they are. Sometimes, they would actually say it to my face that "I'll rot in hell" for not being one of them, but in a way this has taught me tolerance at an early age, and I've also met some students there who had the same experience as I had.

Moving on to high school with the tolerance I've learned, I transferred to a non-sectarian school and it was WAY better. It was there that I met my two best friends (yeah, we're a trio) that until now that we're all grown-ups, we're all still together. The funny thing - the three of us belong to completely different religions, let alone our personalities. But did we let all those differences get in the way? No.

No two people are the same - it's why even I am constantly wondering why people had to consider "differences" in forging connections with others. Chemistry may definitely affect relations but I don't think trivial things such as religion (or even race, colour and background now that we're at it) should play a big role.

 

[TamaMum]

.... People then develop this idea that all religious people act this way. I don't belong to any particular religion, but it really bothers me when some Atheists can't accept the value that it has to somebody else. It's fine not to believe or understand it, but to literally bash people on the head about it and tell them how ridiculous they are- things a couple of my religious friends have experienced in their philosophy classes-, is totally uncalled for. They then allow these views to completely govern their perception of the personality of a person even though it's totally irrelevant.

This.+1 +1 +1

If religion was "out of the picture" it would not make any difference to the number of good friends I have in my life.

That's probably because I don't feel some overwhelming need to prove my point of view is "better" or "right" and that others are "wrong".

None of my friends have that kind of judgemental personality - or if they do, they don't reveal it to me.

I have many friends; some are athiest, agnostic, communist, others are Jewish, Muslim, Christian and Buddhist and one who is Baha' - none of them have ever attempted to "convert" me or persuade me to agree with their point of view except a couple who do not follow any formal religion at all - but honestly, I think that couple's strong views are more to do with their personality than their athiest belief system - it certainly doesn't make me think that all athiests are just like them.

I don't follow any formal religion and I make every attempt to avoid religious discussions in social situations.

I have so much in common with my friends that I have no need to discuss our differences because they simply don't impede our friendship - that's probably because we all seem comfortable with focussing on what we have in common rather than our differences.

I am not convinced that "religion" is the problem at all. I think it is more that we all feel the need to form an opinion and have others agree with our opinion. When some do not agree we all tend to judge. Religious judge non religious and vice versa - that's kind of human nature I think

 

[Amat Gotchi]

I've had to deal with these extremists when I was in elementary school.

I

was enrolled in a Catholic school (no offense intended) and they were

forcing all the beliefs and traditions to every student. As a

non-Catholic, I was frequently being made fun of by most of my

classmates for being in a different sect as they are. Sometimes, they

would actually say it to my face that "I'll rot in hell" for not being

one of them, but in a way this has taught me tolerance at an early age,

and I've also met some students there who had the same experience as I

had.

Moving on to high school with the tolerance I've

learned, I transferred to a non-sectarian school and it was WAY better.

It was there that I met my two best friends (yeah, we're a trio) that

until now that we're all grown-ups, we're all still together. The funny

thing - the three of us belong to completely different religions, let

alone our personalities. But did we let all those differences get in the

way? No.

No two people are the same - it's why even I

am constantly wondering why people had to consider "differences" in

forging connections with others. Chemistry may definitely affect

relations but I don't think trivial things such as religion (or even

race, colour and background now that we're at it) should play a big

role.

I had a similar situation. For all of middle school, I was at a Catholic school where most people were Catholic ultra-conservative extremists. My peers were very nice, but the school itself would force everyone to take "religion" class every day, in which we learned the teachings of the Catholic church and why all other religions were wrong. I had some great friends there, but after the school erupted, making students pray for/protest against some birth control bill, (my parents let me stay home and fake sick) I knew I had to leave (last straw). They added politics to the opinions they forced, saying we should pray that Obama would not be elected, and other things like that. This year I transferred to a secular high school, where I can take any elective class I want and not protest for a certain religion. The Catholic school taught very well, but the way they tried to force everyone there to be a Catholic, saying all other religions were sinful, really angered me.

I have found out since that the vast majority of Catholics completely different from the Catholic school I attended, and I am still astonished by how rigid the Catholics here are.

I've decided that no one religion is right or wrong, since a religion is only another opinion, one trait that makes up a person. ^_^

 

[TAMAmaybeth]

For me the religion that somebody has isn't more important from his own self...What I wanna say?

I also go to a Catholic school.(no offence)There is a lot of difference between it and the ones in the posts I read here.

Luckily, none is forced to have a certain religion. The school teaches astonishing perfectly and perhaps it doesn't even let you breath a sign of relief after a Big test as there comes an other one but the presure is obviously educational here.[the reason I joined^]

The religion is free... Nuns live in this school and some years before they even teached in classes. (religion,maths,science)

About the divine liturgy etc?

if you are Catholic you simply follow them their own church! The school has one and there is also one outside the building.

Christian? you go to the local church...

etc...

None gets presure and to be honest the kids do not discuss about it neither. It's not something strange but it just has no matter!! Everyone is equal and follows his belief!!! Under my opinion this is right cause it's not fair judging the marks or the personality of someone by his belief!

 

[Midorime]

And that is why, by reading your guys' posts, I believe religion to be 'brainwashing' because people believe what others tell them without a doubt, and it's crammed down your throat until it's every bit a part of you as your personality. i find it sad, where people are put down just because they don't believe in the same things, or are forced to change their views to be like everyone else.

However, I prefer to say that being spiritualist is more appropriate, mostly because you can take a religion and adapt it to fit your views and way of thinking without being forced to think only in one way and that other ways are 'wrong.'

not to say it's all just wrong or whatever, but I just see... so many negative things with churches as you hear on the news, the rape and molestation, the Westboro, greed and fraud, etc, and it really just makes me uneasy about those institutions. I personally believe that to be religious is to have it within, spiritually, and to believe and practice as how you see fit. Mind you i am an atheist, but when I was into religion, two different ones mind you, I was more spiritual as I never liked the churchs--I was always outcasted and in same cases downright ignored and asked to sit in the corner away from others and not participate. i never could fit in, and I don't think the teachers (since it was Sunday school), liked the fact i asked so many questions they had no answers for.

Anyway, getting too much into it, lol. But no, one of my friends is Catholic, and we're fine, we don't even talk about it unless I have a question about what she was taught, but other than that, eh, my friends and I never discuss it.

 

[x.//StoryTeller//.x]

I identify as a Christian, even though I identify as a Lesbian as well. I am open to everyone, but unfortunately many of my Christian friends are not open to me. It's quite sad, as some friendships that were once strong have now broken as they try to avoid me once they found out my sexual orientation.

There is one girl at my school who apparently worships Satan. She's got Satanic symbols all over her notebook, and I didn't even know that something of this sort existed. I certainly do not hate her, but when she speaks of Satan it makes me a bit uncomfortable. This opened my eyes to how my Christian friends who don't accept my sexuality feel.

I don't allow things like this to keep me apart from people though. The girl and I are a bit friends, as we both have a passion for classic Disney.

 

[Midorime]

I identify as a Christian, even though I identify as a Lesbian as well. I am open to everyone, but unfortunately many of my Christian friends are not open to me. It's quite sad, as some friendships that were once strong have now broken as they try to avoid me once they found out my sexual orientation.

There is one girl at my school who apparently worships Satan. She's got Satanic symbols all over her notebook, and I didn't even know that something of this sort existed. I certainly do not hate her, but when she speaks of Satan it makes me a bit uncomfortable. This opened my eyes to how my Christian friends who don't accept my sexuality feel.

I don't allow things like this to keep me apart from people though. The girl and I are a bit friends, as we both have a passion for classic Disney.

Oh I heard about that, people being outed for their orientation even though Christianity is supposed to be about loving everyone and each other. I'm sorry you go through that, I have bi/gay friends who have similar problems. But do for you and put behind you those who cannot accept you--you deserve love, not hate!

Satanism, I've heard of it. It's interesting, but it's not so much Satan as I heard it was supposed to be more of 'the self' and carnal desires. More primal and satisfying those urges. I could be somewhat mistaken, though, it's been years since I read up on it, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

 

[PrivateSunshine]

This.

+1 +1 +1

If religion was "out of the picture" it would not make any difference to the number of good friends I have in my life.

That's probably because I don't feel some overwhelming need to prove my point of view is "better" or "right" and that others are "wrong".

None of my friends have that kind of judgemental personality - or if they do, they don't reveal it to me.

I have many friends; some are athiest, agnostic, communist, others are Jewish, Muslim, Christian and Buddhist and one who is Baha' - none of them have ever attempted to "convert" me or persuade me to agree with their point of view except a couple who do not follow any formal religion at all - but honestly, I think that couple's strong views are more to do with their personality than their athiest belief system - it certainly doesn't make me think that all athiests are just like them.

I don't follow any formal religion and I make every attempt to avoid religious discussions in social situations.

I have so much in common with my friends that I have no need to discuss our differences because they simply don't impede our friendship - that's probably because we all seem comfortable with focussing on what we have in common rather than our differences.

I am not convinced that "religion" is the problem at all. I think it is more that we all feel the need to form an opinion and have others agree with our opinion. When some do not agree we all tend to judge. Religious judge non religious and vice versa - that's kind of human nature I think

I must say I'm jealous of the friends you have I've never dropped any friends because they didn't share the same religion as I do, but I've had many "friends", and even family, drop *me*. I don't talk about my religion in public, or even much with anyone else. These "friends" think I'm really cool, funny, understanding, all that jazz until they find out what religion I am. Then suddenly I'm dark, hateful, and a baby murderer (yeah, I've actually been accused of that...). Religion may not be the problem in some cases, but I think it has a large impact on how people treat others. Judgment is normal, like you said, it's human nature. I'm guilty of it myself. However, I always think again when it comes to judging someone. I might see a person wearing something totally hideous, and the first thing that pops in my head is "disgusting slob", but then I check myself and say "well, what if that person genuinely likes how they look? What if that outfit signifies something?". Judgment of others is unavoidable, but I wish others would think things through before coming to a snap conclusion.

 

[PrivateSunshine]

I identify as a Christian, even though I identify as a Lesbian as well. I am open to everyone, but unfortunately many of my Christian friends are not open to me. It's quite sad, as some friendships that were once strong have now broken as they try to avoid me once they found out my sexual orientation.

There is one girl at my school who apparently worships Satan. She's got Satanic symbols all over her notebook, and I didn't even know that something of this sort existed. I certainly do not hate her, but when she speaks of Satan it makes me a bit uncomfortable. This opened my eyes to how my Christian friends who don't accept my sexuality feel.

I don't allow things like this to keep me apart from people though. The girl and I are a bit friends, as we both have a passion for classic Disney.

I myself am a Spiritual Satanist (I feel comfortable enough saying that here because I've noticed absolutely no one going on rampages, and everyone is respectful) and I must say it's nothing dark and depressing. Yes, most people of my religion tend to be goth, have tattoos and piercings, and listen to heavy metal, but that's not what the religion itself is about. We don't sacrifice goats or babies, we actually view animals as sacred beings. We can eat them, we just can't torture or abuse them. We aren't out to kill Christians, either. It's not a religion about vampires, werewolves, ghouls, or Halloween monsters. In short, it's just about spiritual enlightenment and self empowerment through meditation and breathing exercises.

So don't worry, you can rest easy knowing that *true* Satanists are not out to darken the world

We're actually pretty nice (I know you know that, I'm just trying to ease your mind, seeing as you mentioned speaking of Satan makes you uncomfortable).

 

[Amat Gotchi]

For me the religion that somebody has isn't more important from his own self...What I wanna say?

I also go to a Catholic school.(no offence)There is a lot of difference between it and the ones in the posts I read here.

Luckily, none is forced to have a certain religion. The school teaches astonishing perfectly and perhaps it doesn't even let you breath a sign of relief after a Big test as there comes an other one but the presure is obviously educational here.[the reason I joined^]

The religion is free... Nuns live in this school and some years before they even teached in classes. (religion,maths,science)

About the divine liturgy etc?

if you are Catholic you simply follow them their own church! The school has one and there is also one outside the building.

Christian? you go to the local church...

etc...

None gets presure and to be honest the kids do not discuss about it neither. It's not something strange but it just has no matter!! Everyone is equal and follows his belief!!! Under my opinion this is right cause it's not fair judging the marks or the personality of someone by his belief!

You're very lucky to go to a Catholic school like that. Some Catholic schools, like yours, have become much more progressive, and I'm glad that they are changing. My Catholic school was a very good educational school (in some areas) but they put too much emphasis on the "Catholic" part of it and not enough on the "school" part. (We had regular Mass in the gym (yes, the gymnasium) there, with a wheeled altar, vestments, fancy dressing up, everything. Plus religion class every day, as I mentioned.)

But I do miss my friends from that school, and I am still trying to get in touch with them. As I said, the students were, for the most part, very nice; it was the school that was the problem for me.