Abortion

[dazzilitchigirl]

I am pro-choice.

It's not for anyone to decide, not me, not you, not even the government, about who says one can or cannot abort. This is the decision of the one who is pregnant--if she wants to abort, let her, if not, that's okay, too. It would be no different with people trying to stop her from aborting than say, someone trying to make you change your religion, forcing you to stop liking certain things you like, etc. Yes it's fine and dandy people want to 'save all life' and such but honestly? People need to keep to their own business.

Also, some of us are not fortunate enough to have the tools to prevent pregnancy unless we completely abstain. For example I am allergic to pretty much all forms of birth control in both rubber form and the copper paraguard. And I cannot take hormones due to my medications for my mood/personality disorders, which in and of themselves, to conceive while taking them I would end up with a child that would have mental or birth defects. And yet despite all this, doctors refuse to sterilize me. (I don't want to bear children due to aforementioned disorders, i am not stable enough to care for children for that alone, but including other factors such as financial and situational, same thing. I also do not even like children.) So i have to completely abstain. I'm sure you can all imagine how my relationships end up going. Yeah, no relationships at all.

Some people have legit reasons to do what they do. Some do not. Regardless, it's no one's business but their own and no one has the right to infringe upon that.

I hope you mean by "I don't like children" that you wouldn't like the responsibility of having one yourself. It's the same as a child saying "I don't like adults" when they mean "I don't like my teacher" or something; it's unclear.

Also, you can have a relationship without sex. Anyone who is remotely kind or loving will understand that you can't do it for good reasons, and in the end, sex only means two things: A way to enhance your relationship/show your love for each other and a way to have children. It's not compulsory.

What I just said might seem off-topic, but actually, it's not. Sex is becoming a bigger and bigger part of younger and younger relationships, meaning more teen pregnancy and more abortion. People need to understand that love is all about the feelings - not all about the physical intimacy.

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

I am pro-choice.

It's not for anyone to decide, not me, not you, not even the government, about who says one can or cannot abort. This is the decision of the one who is pregnant--if she wants to abort, let her, if not, that's okay, too. It would be no different with people trying to stop her from aborting than say, someone trying to make you change your religion, forcing you to stop liking certain things you like, etc. Yes it's fine and dandy people want to 'save all life' and such but honestly? People need to keep to their own business.

Also, some of us are not fortunate enough to have the tools to prevent pregnancy unless we completely abstain. For example I am allergic to pretty much all forms of birth control in both rubber form and the copper paraguard. And I cannot take hormones due to my medications for my mood/personality disorders, which in and of themselves, to conceive while taking them I would end up with a child that would have mental or birth defects. And yet despite all this, doctors refuse to sterilize me. (I don't want to bear children due to aforementioned disorders, i am not stable enough to care for children for that alone, but including other factors such as financial and situational, same thing. I also do not even like children.) So i have to completely abstain. I'm sure you can all imagine how my relationships end up going. Yeah, no relationships at all.

Some people have legit reasons to do what they do. Some do not. Regardless, it's no one's business but their own and no one has the right to infringe upon that.

I must disagree with you. If people should be minded there own business, the world would be a horrible place: murder, theft, rape, etc..(Much more than today).

We must see that people make wrong decisions, and to avoid this there at least has to be a government to stop the more obvious crimes.

Also, why don't you want children? They're truly a blessing and can bring you great comfort when something bad, or not nice happens. If you just don't want a child because you don't want to have the responsibilities you should think about every other parent, and maybe yours in particular(although it could be that you had horrible parents...).

 

[Midorime]

I must disagree with you. If people should be minded there own business, the world would be a horrible place: murder, theft, rape, etc..(Much more than today).

We must see that people make wrong decisions, and to avoid this there at least has to be a government to stop the more obvious crimes.

Also, why don't you want children? They're truly a blessing and can bring you great comfort when something bad, or not nice happens. If you just don't want a child because you don't want to have the responsibilities you should think about every other parent, and maybe yours in particular(although it could be that you had horrible parents...).

While those are valid topics of concern and by law they are wrong, abortion is not seen under the law as being illegal. In other countries it may very well be, but it would be ethnocentric to tell others "No, no, you can't do that, it's wrong!" Like in the Middle East, there are laws that allow the beating of a wife if that wife is said to be 'unruly' in the marriage. We would see that as wrong and immoral and against the law, but in their culture it's a part of life. Same with genital mutilation. We can not have say in what other people do or choose.

Step back for a moment and think about how you came to your decision. Was it religion? Upbringing? Culture? Shock factors? Education? A combination? All those have influenced who you are and what you believe, and while your emotions are certainly valid, it doesn't exactly make them the one true answer to the question if abortion is right or wrong. Because now we are looking into the ethics behind it, and if you take all that past stuff out of the picture, then there really is, in a sense speaking, no true right or wrong answer at all.

For example we may feel murder is wrong and to persecute those who murder by say, the death penalty. Say you're for it. Now... what if your brother murdered someone? Your father? Your mother? How about your own child in the future? If you were so for the death penalty, would you even consider allowing them to get the same treatment? Or let's turn it back to abortion, if your mother was to have another child, or your girlfriend or wife, and they were ill and the doctor didn't recommend carrying the baby to term, what then? You then risk not only the life of that mother, but also the life of the child if she were to carry it to term, versus just the life of the mother. This very thing happened to a nun who had to make that very decision to save the life of one, or lose the lives of both. https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126985072

In such a case, what would be 'right?' The 'murder' of one, or the 'murder' of both?

---

As for the other half you speak of, as I have stated, I have multiple personality and mood disorders. I am unstable. Without my medication I can get abusive in many ways without even thinking about what i am doing. I also have gone so far into the depressive spectrum that I have tried to take my own life on several occasions. Knowing this, would you really want someone such as myself to be a mother? Would you be comfortable with the idea of a woman who is mentally ill to have children whom she could snap on and possibly even ruin developmentally due to verbal and emotional abuse? (I'm not physically abusive, except in rare cases where I will break inanimate objects.)

Also take into consideration that this all happens when i am not medicated. However, if I were to get pregnant, i would have to go off my meds as it's been shown that bipolar meds, at least what i am on plus my anxiety meds, cause detrimental things to fetuses and babies and in fact it even states in my prescription pamphlets that I need to cease the medication asap if I was to be pregnant.

Also, considering the fact I cannot have nor sustain healthy relationships due to these disorders, and due to the fact I have no real reliable form of birth control, I can't even have the initial stages to even think about having a family. I have been on hormonal birth control before the meds now and it caused me a lot of problems emotionally--mood swings galore and other side effects, no more drive, no interest in whoever i was dating, etc. I cannot go back on it with my meds and it'll cause my meds to not work as well, I could have relapses into states of manic depression again and possibly become dangerous with such a cocktail of chemicals inside me that do not mix well at all. And I am allergic to other conventional forms. This leads to no intimacy in a relationship and it falls apart. unless I were only intimate with the intention of bearing a child, but then and only then. However then we go back up to me getting off my meds, which makes me 'no longer me' and I have had guys leave me because they cannot deal with a bipolar.

When you mix in all these factors, the answer is pretty clear that for me to have a child would be very 'wrong' and detrimental to the health and development of the baby. If something were to happen where I did get pregnant, it would be a good idea to allow that clump of cells to be removed before it turns into a baby. not only that, when you have a mental illness, there's a four times more likely chance that the child will get it as well.

I feel that my decision is justified with enough concrete evidence to show that for me to be a mother is a 'bad' idea. (I say 'bad' because it depends on a person's definition of 'bad' really is.) Also, due to personal preference, I just overall do not like children. i do not want to contribute another life to this society, I do not like how it is run, I can barely take care of myself mentally and financially as is and therefore I do not need another responsibility that I can not adequately prepare nor accommodate for. Through into the mix that here in the USA, divorce rates are insanely high, and men tend to not stick around to help the mothers--we have a very high rate of single mothers. I refuse to be a part of that, and even refuse to be married due to my lack of trust in people, especially in my own generation and the younger generations.

I also wish to add while it's your opinion that children are a blessing, like I tell others who tell me the same exact words, I would like to say that it is merely your opinion but is not the be-all-end-all correct answer. You, nor anyone else, lives my life. I alone live my life, make my own decisions, and my own mistakes. No one, not even my own family, has any right to tell me that i am 'wrong' or that I will 'change my mind.' That alone is for me to reflect upon and decide when the time comes.

I apologize if i sounded rude during all of this, and I sure did have a lot to say, probably too much. I hope I don't regret it later and out of privacy have it removed. Just fair warning. It IS the internet and all, and I don't like to reveal too much that can backlash on me. But note I am not trying to purposefully attack you or anyone, I'm just trying to get you to think about it and realize that really, in the end, people are going to do what they're going to do, and no matter your good intentions, more than likely they will fall on deaf ears. The difference is, one needs to respect the decisions someone else makes. i respect you for being pro-life, more power to you for being a baby saver. But please respect me and my choice of having the choice to begin with.

EDIT: Also to save space, perhaps don't quote my post, yeah? And I really do not wish to turn this into a debate of how and why you think I should bear children. My decision has been made, you cannot change it anymore than I can tell you that no, women have to have the right to choose and that's final. So essentially, it's a draw, there is no 'right' and it's merely just bouncing of opinions that will get us nowhere.

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

As I posted a few posts before, I clearly stated that if a child will cause the death of itself and its mother, I'm definitely "pro-choice"(It's actually still kinda pro-ife since you save the most you can).

So, I get that.

Mido, I'm sorry to hear about your illness. The thing is, when this generation is old, it is the next generation that will HAVE TO take care of us.

Kids of other people will have to take care of people who didn't want kids. You understand how that it's kinda selfish, right? Of course, your case is quite different, but I'm just now talking still a bit in general.

Personally I find that if a child is destined to have a certain disease or illness(even locked-in-syndrome), it is not a good reason to kill it(or prevent it from living). You can never know how it's life will turn out, and if he'll enjoy it or not.

Death comes to all natural. Life doesn't(at least not without us "intervening"). So let us be the life-givers, but not the life-takers. You say you hate it that other people force you do make certain choices ad that you have the right to choose for yourself. I agree, but admit that that baby(to be) is not yourself, but another person(that also may mind if you take certain for him(eventually)).

Also, about the death-penalty. I am against people killing other people, and that includes the death penalty. But if there was another punishment(say lifelong prison and food would only be bread and water), I would let my family undergo that punishment. In fact, I would be more strict on my own child than on another.

I agree that this current generation of people are kinda corrupt. Everything seems to be no problem: divorce, lying, (and selfishness I believe is the main cause).

People can nowadays be so spoiled, that it's very easy to be selfish. Divorce? Ah, no problem, I can get a new one.

I am also for these reason against divorce and remarriage. If it would be disallowed, people would also think twice if they truly wanted to marry someone. Marriage nowadays, isn't anymore what it used to be: a sign of trust.

But if you don't want a child, which I can understand under your circumstances, don't "make" one in the first place. You said that you weren't married, so that's(normally) a step in that direction.

I know it doesn't sound nice, but I think it's better to nor undergo pleasure than having had an abortion. For me sex and pregnancy are linked and should not be separated.

 

[KERFUFFLE]

I agree that this current generation of people are kinda corrupt. Everything seems to be no problem: divorce, lying, (and selfishness I believe is the main cause).

People can nowadays be so spoiled, that it's very easy to be selfish. Divorce? Ah, no problem, I can get a new one. Marriage nowadays, isn't anymore what it used to be: a sign of trust.

I certainly agree with you on this. I think too many people these days see both divorce and abortion as a kind of 'Plan B.' In the case of divorce, it means people don't think about the long term, whether they really can see themselves being in a lifelong relationship with someone. People seem to be in a rush to get married, and at the same time give it less value than they used to. I don't disagree with people divorcing because sometimes it is kinder on the children, rather than them being caught between a verbal war being waged in front of their eyes as the case may sometimes be, as it was with a friend of mine's parents. Sometimes marriages just don't work out no matter how hard both people try to make it past their differences. But I don't think people should get married with the idea that it doesn't matter if it doesn't work out, because divorce is allowed.

Regarding abortion, some people use it as a reason to not worry about having continual unprotected sex because they see it as a way out in a worst case scenario. Making the decision to terminate a pregnancy shouldn't be easy, and for most people it isn't, however it has made people less careful because, in terms of accessing it, it's much easier than it used to be; it's safe and it's confidential. I believe it has a place in our society, and ultimately I believe the choice should lie with the parents, but once again society has grown used to it, and people have begun to treat what's lawfully allowed as an easy way out rather than as the tough decision that it is.

Both of these options would be an absolute last resort for me, and I imagine for a lot of people here, but unfortunately it's not the same for everybody else in the world.

 

[Midorime]

Mido, I'm sorry to hear about your illness. The thing is, when this generation is old, it is the next generation that will HAVE TO take care of us.

Kids of other people will have to take care of people who didn't want kids. You understand how that it's kinda selfish, right? Of course, your case is quite different, but I'm just now talking still a bit in general.

Perhaps it's a little hard to explain or understand, but if I get to that point I believe in humane euthanization, or as most call it "pulling the plug." If I get so old and crippled and have not adequately taken steps to prepare for it myself, I will opt to be put to sleep. Heck I'll be old and senile and practically a vegetable, why should I bother? No one, and I mean no one, should have to care for me. Even if I did have kids, I would never allow them to care for me--my burdens are my burdens alone, just like i tell my dad that sorry, I love him but I will not be doing every single little thing for him. He's a grown man and if he wants to put himself into a financial hole like he's doing to himself right now, then he can live with it. You reap what you sow. He's done the same with me by having me do things and absolutely refusing to help me whatsoever. But this whole part here is completely off-topic so let's not delve into that, shall we?

Personally I find that if a child is destined to have a certain disease or illness(even locked-in-syndrome), it is not a good reason to kill it(or prevent it from living). You can never know how it's life will turn out, and if he'll enjoy it or not.

Death comes to all natural. Life doesn't(at least not without us "intervening"). So let us be the life-givers, but not the life-takers. You say you hate it that other people force you do make certain choices ad that you have the right to choose for yourself. I agree, but admit that that baby(to be) is not yourself, but another person(that also may mind if you take certain for him(eventually)).

True, but I couldn't live with myself knowing i was the one to give that child that disorder, so I shall forgo even the idea of having children to begin with to avoid that issue completely.

 

[Moussette]

I'm pro choice .

I see it in my own point of view here. I don't want to have kids, now or later. My boyfriend doesn't want kids too. I personnaly think having kids is the most selfish decision one can ever make.

But then again , sometimes , you get pregnant and you haven't really decided it.

I perfectly understand the women who are aborting. It's a tough decision , thank god I have never aborted in my life, and i'm doing everything I can to make it continue, because that's something I don't want to do.

 

[WhiteClaw84]

I'm pro choice .

I see it in my own point of view here. I don't want to have kids, now or later. My boyfriend doesn't want kids too. I personnaly think having kids is the most selfinsh decision one can ever make.

But then again , sometimes , you get pregnant and you haven't really decided it.

I perfectly understand the women who are aborting. It's a tough decision , thank god I have never aborted in my life, and i'm doing everything I can to make it continue, because that's something I don't want to do.

I don't think having kids is a selfish decision at all if you are having them for the right reason. Yes, I'm proud of my son and I brag about him but I didn't have him solely to benefit me or family or friends but rather to share my life and experiences with him. I give my all to my son. He has had and will always have everything of me. I give all (almost all my husband gets first dibs lol) my love to him. I have sacrificed a lot for him and will continue to do so. I didn't need a child to show how successful I am or anything along those lines. He is well cared for, has food, we don't rely on stamps or aid of any kind, we donate his old stuff to charities to give to others, and so on. He lives a privileged life and even if I had to scrub toilets to give it to him I would.

If I were being selfish I would never had had a child so I could keep all my money, time, my body and etc...to myself.

I think you have to have had a kid before making a statement like that. Of course you are entitled to your opinion and I respect it. I'm just saying that until you realize what a parent truly sacrifices not just in money but as I said before, time, your body, your love, etc...you probably won't understand that it's really not a selfish decision at all.

But that...is just my opinion. I love my little boy (turning a year old in a few weeks!) and I will always give everything of me to him as well as my husband. They are the greatest gifts I have ever been given and on top of that I've already seen how his existence has changed friends and family for the better and even strangers. If he can make someone smile in the grocery store who looked a little down, I think he's already contributing to society and he makes a lot of people smile!

 

[Moussette]

So I can't make a statement like that because I don't have kids... Soooo I make a baby, and then I can realise if i'm right or wrong ? What if I still think it's selfish to have kids ? I leave it in a corner ? That sounds rather selfish to me (i'm using irony here)

It's kind of hash to read that I can't understand, or I can't have my opinions because I don't have/want kids. It's not the first time I hear that, it feels like not having a kid by choice is a crime noadays.

Back on topic (abortion) : I think it would be selfish (again, I know) having a kid knowing that you can't or don't want to take care of it. That's why i'm pro choice.

 

[Nyaasu]

I'm pro-choice, because the idea of being pregnant/giving birth terrifies me.

If I became pregnant, and was FORCED TO GO THROUGH WITH IT, I would probably commit suicide - so either way, a "life"* will be lost.

*(Before a certain point, I don't consider a fertilized egg to be a life - I do not fully believe in the concept of a soul).

Now, before any pro-lifers declare me a horrible person, I think abortion is ABSOLUTELY THE LAST OPTION THAT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED, and before it gets to that, every precaution should be taken. Hell, I'd have my tubes tied if my dumb boyfriend wasn't so against it (he insists that one day I'll change my mind - I doubt it. HIGHLY.) But it absolutely can not be made illegal - that creates problems like what happened to that poor woman in Ireland.

If abortion is against someone's morals, or their religion, I can't fault them for rallying against it, though.

Although I don't view it as such, I can see that if you consider it to me murder, you'd want it to stop.

But I notice that a lot of people who oppose abortion ALSO oppose birth control...which...makes no sense to me. xD

One stops the thing from ever happening, one commits "murder" once the thing does happen.

...Wouldn't you prefer it never happen in the first place? xD

(P.S. - Having sex for fun rather than for the sake of reproduction is only immoral/sinful in some religions - you can't expect people outside of your "group" to follow your rules when it comes to such frivolous things as sex for fun.)

No worries, pro-lifers - chances are I will NEVER NEED AN ABORTION, and will not have one. Also, I do not make the laws. So even if we differ on our opinions here, there's no need to be upset at me, personally, for my opinion. As I've said, I don't fault you for yours.

 

[WhiteClaw84]

So I can't make a statement like that because I don't have kids... Soooo I make a baby, and then I can realise if i'm right or wrong ? What if I still think it's selfish to have kids ? I leave it in a corner ? That sounds rather selfish to me (i'm using irony here)

It's kind of hash to read that I can't understand, or I can't have my opinions because I don't have/want kids. It's not the first time I hear that, it feels like not having a kid by choice is a crime noadays.

Back on topic (abortion) : I think it would be selfish (again, I know) having a kid knowing that you can't or don't want to take care of it. That's why i'm pro choice.

Woah woah...I think you're taking my last post a bit too far. I simply said that I don't think you can have a complete/full understanding of whether having kids is selfish or not until you've actually had one. I think that's a fair thing to say since obviously, by not having kids, you don't understand exactly what it is that is sacrificed in the process of having kids. If you don't want kids...don't have one. If you think it's selfish then fine but be careful about telling those with kids that having them is selfish. As I stated before if I wanted to be selfish I would have chosen to keep my money, time, body and so on vs. having a kid and sacrificing a lot of that. I could easily call you selfish for NOT having a kid.

I do think it's selfish to have a kid soley for your own benefit or when you know that you can't provide for the child though. I agree with you there. But if you can provide a good life as I stated above then I don't see how it is a selfish choice.

Also, I never said that not having a kid is a crime. If you don't want them...don't have them. Just don't protect your opinion by calling those that have kids selfish as if by not having kids you are not selfish. We're all selfish with kids or not. You probably don't have kids because you don't want them to interrupt your time, take over your finances, eat up your love that you would rather share with someone else and so on. And that's perfectly OK. Some people would rather travel the world with their friends or spouses than have kids and that's ok.

 

[GO-GOZARUTCHI1]

I don't think religion has a role in this topic at all! It is a woman's choice and I think it should stay that way. She made decisions to get to the point of choosing abortion or not and I think we shouldn't judge people based on those kinds of things just like we shouldn't judge people based on other choices like religion for example I'm atheist and I am perfectly fine with being friends with people of other religions because its their choice, however when someone says my choice is a bad one and their religion is the best and I should change my choice I start having a problem so I really don't care what a woman does as long as she gets a choice otherwise it would be like dictating her body and telling her what she can and can't do which is inhumane and wrong.

 

[Midorime]

It depends on the context to which the state of "having children is selfish" can be applied. For example, to have children because you truly want them and to have a family isn't selfish. However, to have children with the intention of say, keeping a connection with a bf/husband who wants to leave you and putting them in a position of forking over child support, or having the intention of making sure that child will forever take care of you and you guilt them into doing so with emotional abuse and manipulation, then yeah, that's selfish. What really determines if it's selfish or not is the intent and reason.

The definition of being selfish is in a nut shell "to do for the self" and usually that entails not having children because then you can do more for your own self.

What bothers me the most, though, are women who pop out babies and never lift a finger in their life and sponge off welfare and others. That is a clear example of being selfish--using the kids to get welfare, and forcing them to care for their mother and do everything for her. And most of the time, these mothers do not actually 'parent' their children and the kids are free to run amok. And usually as well, there is no father figure even in the picture.

Those are just some examples I can think up of.

Just remember, being selfish to an extent, as long as it doesn't hurt others, is okay. It's okay to want time to yourself, to want more money to yourself, to do what you wish with your time. That is a legitimate thing that people want, everyone needs that 'me time.' Don't think all selfish things are bad, again it's all about the intent and reason.

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

I am also kinda brought up with it, but my religion tells me the same, and I also WANT TO take care of my parents(and grandparents) when it is neccesary.

My parents are good people, and defenitly at least deserve that. That's the smallest thing I could do to pay them back.

Also, when my parents are old, they're not rightaway going to turn into a "vegetable"(that takes time, and can take quite a while). So, when they're unable, or it's very hard for them to take care of themselves I would only find it normal to take care and help them. Also, I am against euthansia, so that wouldn't be an option for me. I would still take the best care of my parents till they die.

Anyway, in this society people are almost getting punished for having many kids. It is shown to be ideal if you have 0-3 kids. But people forget how BIG a contribution to society a child is.

If yoiu would take away all subsidies, you would see that the family's with more would do better, since they all can support each other.

Also, there is enough work needed on our planet. And every child we bring to the world can be another helper.

 

[WhiteClaw84]

It depends on the context to which the state of "having children is selfish" can be applied. For example, to have children because you truly want them and to have a family isn't selfish. However, to have children with the intention of say, keeping a connection with a bf/husband who wants to leave you and putting them in a position of forking over child support, or having the intention of making sure that child will forever take care of you and you guilt them into doing so with emotional abuse and manipulation, then yeah, that's selfish. What really determines if it's selfish or not is the intent and reason.

The definition of being selfish is in a nut shell "to do for the self" and usually that entails not having children because then you can do more for your own self.

What bothers me the most, though, are women who pop out babies and never lift a finger in their life and sponge off welfare and others. That is a clear example of being selfish--using the kids to get welfare, and forcing them to care for their mother and do everything for her. And most of the time, these mothers do not actually 'parent' their children and the kids are free to run amok. And usually as well, there is no father figure even in the picture.

Those are just some examples I can think up of.

Just remember, being selfish to an extent, as long as it doesn't hurt others, is okay. It's okay to want time to yourself, to want more money to yourself, to do what you wish with your time. That is a legitimate thing that people want, everyone needs that 'me time.' Don't think all selfish things are bad, again it's all about the intent and reason.

This is what I wanted to say last night lol but was too tired to. If you're having kids for welfare, tax deductions, trophy child, bragging rights etc...then you are having kids for the wrong reason. I never push those who don't want kids to have kids. If they don't want them they don't have to have them! If they can't have kids...they can't. I was told I couldn't get pregnant but w could try anyway. If I hadn't gotten pregnant with my son we would have considered adoption because we know there are many wonderful kids out there looking for a home.

I get very frustrated with people like OctoMom who pop out kids and expect everyone to raise and provide for them while she sits around and does nothing. A true mother does everything she can to provide and protect. I work a full time job as does my husband so that our can go to the best daycare, get good quality clothes and toys, have the best organic food and so on. I work very hard with my husband to raise and care for our son and have NEVER expected anyone else to raise or provide for my son. It would be embarrassing if I ever had to get help (I do understand special circumstances like natural disaster or suddenly losing my job).

In turn I don't expect Isaiah to ever have to care or provide for me. I hope that if I did need help on small things like moving furniture someday when We're too old to do it lol but will never ask for money or expect anything from him. I love him and want him to live happily.

And yes it is perfectly ok to be selfish sometimes. Sometimes I tell my husband I'm going grocery shopping and it'll take a long time so he watches our son. When I get to the grocery store I stop and have a coffee and read a magazine before I even start grocery shopping lol

 

[Ashley Montanae]

Ashley, you're picking on my words, and not try to see the meaning of what I'm trying to say. Also, do you disagree with my last statement? Please tell me, where in the Bible, you would get to think otherwise?

"Picking at [your] words"? When you put words together to form a concept, even one makes the whole thing wrong. I'm not trying to pick at your words - I see what you're saying. I'm just stating why I believe you're incorrect.

Also, on OSAS, I'd love to PM you about it, but, I won't go over it on this board; it'd be way off topic & we'd likely get the admins sic'ed on us.

 

[PrivateSunshine]

Definitely pro-choice. There are 7 billion people on this planet. If the parents don't want the kid, then they don't want the kid. It's not going to have any effect on my life if Jane Doe in California gets an abortion. That's her business, not mine. This may sound harsh, but I would rather have the parents get an abortion than carry the child full term just to give it up for adoption when there are millions of kids all over the world with no homes. That being said, I'm not pro-baby murder. It's not entirely a sentient being when the abortion is done anyway... This all sounds really harsh but I seriously think you should only keep the child if you have a stable income, and can be sure the child will grow up in a safe and loving environment. I personally would never get an abortion, but that's my take on it. I'm not telling people to kill their kids, I'm just providing my opinion... I'm also pretty tired so if this is a bit difficult to understand then that's why...

 

[Midorime]

I found this video, and this man is awesome, but more than likely it'll probably offend so I'll put spoiler tags. DO NOT WATCH IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE OFFENDED!




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[Stefan Bauwens]

You are right that it's offensive. In fact it is just plain wrong and should not have been posted here.

It are those kind of people that in my opinion should go to prison with their ridiculous defense arguments.

It just shows apparently that there aren't good defense reasons out there.

 

[Midorime]

And that is why I put a spoiler tag up and a warning, so those who don't want to be offended can skip it.

I also think that man is brilliant. I've watched his stuff on religion, war, politics, advertisement, germs/diseases, etc. While he can be rather direct, I feel that he causes people to think about things. People may not change their minds in the end, but I believe his whole approach was shock factor and to get people to think outside of the box instead of following blindly what they were raised with/told.

Also, I don't know about your country, but in the USA you can't put someone in prison for freedom of speech. There are very certain specific instances where I am sure you could and they do, but for this sort of deal, no prison. Or prisons would be absolutely filled to max if we were to try to jail all those who spoke out freely.