Feminism

[Eternal Mametchi Fan]

Let's have a serious and mature discussion about feminism. No fighting, please.

Definition of feminism

Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.

or

An attitude favoring the movement to eliminate political, social, and professional discrimination against women.

A feminist is anyone who possesses this belief or attitude.

Some people support feminism because it aims for equal rights for women everywhere.

Other people oppose feminism because it focuses on females.

Now, personally I don't classify myself as a feminist or an anti-feminist. I don't like labels and I don't like getting into debates. But I am more on the feminist side. This is because:

It is a fact that females receive more discrimination than males. That is why feminism exists. Just like non-straight people are discriminated more than straight people and that is why LGBT+ supporters exist. Does that mean they think gay people are better than straight people? No! Most feminists do not think women are better than men; it just focuses on females because they're the ones who suffer from inequality.

I have never in my life seen a "feminazi", or a feminist that insults men.

I used to not know what feminism was so I asked my boyfriend. He said a feminist is someone who thinks women are better than men. But I did my own research and now I know that feminism is a good cause.

What do you think about feminism?

 

[NineMouse]

People who dislike feminism usually don't fully understand what feminism is or what it stands for, and they have only been educated by other people they've heard talking about feminism (usually in a negative, joking manner), the media (which doesn't always portray feminism accurately, as with most things in the media) and the internet (which is VERY notorious for hating/misrepresenting feminism. In other words, they don't know any better. These people sometimes will continue believing inaccurate information about feminism because they're never shown what feminism is actually all about, no one ever bothers to sit down and talk to them about it, and they just remain ignorant of feminist issues. This isn't necessarily their fault, unless they're staying ignorant of it by choice ("feminism is stupid, I'm just going to skip reading this article/debate/information about it").

With all that said, I do consider myself a feminist, although I don't participate in marches or anything like that and prefer to just speak up when I hear or notice someone talking about a topic related to it (domestic violence, sexual assault, inequality, etc.), to add my voice to discussion and hopefully educate people.

 

[Nazotchi25]

I put myself as neutral and not a feminist, but don't get me wrong, I think feminism and gender equity is a great thing!

Gender equality is something that should happen everywhere and in all reality should've of been something that always existed. Sadly that's not the case but hey there's been movement at least

The reason I said in my vote that I'm not a feminist is truly because I'm not one. I have personal problems to attend to that, for my future, are extremely important. So I'm focusing on myself more than other people. I do hope we can get some more great movement with this sadly true world issue.

 

[tamafan37]

this article is very important-

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/casey-cavanagh/why-we-still-need-feminism_b_5837366.html

and as always-

“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."

 

[Rosaria]

I believe in gender equality and everything, and I believe that women should have every right that men do. I just don't really know what to think about this whole new feminist movement.

If you have the time, go on tumblr and scroll through a few feminist blogs, and you'll se that a lot of them bash men constantly, instead of preaching equal rights. That's not only sexist, but it sets a bad model for future feminists, too. I know that not all feminists are like this, but they give actual feminists a bad image.

So yeah, there's my opinion. I think feminism is fine, just as long as you're not preaching gender supremacy and all that.

 

[Myiko]

I want equality but I don't like the term feminism, because even if it doesn't mean that, the spelling points to female supremacy, and that's something I don't like.

As someone who doesn't like females as much as males (is a personal preference, I enjoy more being with men, but I firmly believe both should have the same rights) what makes me really mad is the way females are worshiped nowadays, don't get me wrong, I know they have a lot more problems than males most of the time, but they also get a lot of events and recognitions males have never had.

(for example, there are events and concerts here in Spain that are meant to show appreciation to women, are there any male appreciation events? nope, not a single one...)

What makes me dislikes some females in someway is their attitude of ''we are always better than you'' that most have, I'm not saying every girl is like that, but most of the ones I've met are (I might just have bad luck when it comes to meeting girls xD)

As an example, I love drawing male bodies, and lots of times when I'm at it some girl comes to me saying ''females bodies are much prettie!!r''... and what makes it worse is that some minutes later they are complaining that everyone overuses the female body... seriously, if you are so proud of your body why you complain people are using it?? I just don't get and it makes me really sick

I also hate when those females that act like if they were a hundred times better than males keep complaining about machism (don't know if it's the right term. sorry) and they don't realize they are doing the same but in the other way.

Overall I just don't like girls complaining about males thinking they are better, I'm sorry but that's not the way to get to have equality...

And don't think I don't dislike men that don't treat women properly, I don't suport any kind of violence and those are not real men to me

I'm sorry if anyone feels offended by my comment, I'm not haiting on you girls, since I know you are not all the same, is just that I don't know a single female in real life that doesn't think they are better than males, I'm just hating on those certain group of girls that make me really mad, is like how people have a bad image of gays even if we are all not the same I guess xd

All I want is equality for everyone, have the same rights, the same events for both, and being able to forget we are different cause we are not. Our Gender doesn't determine how we are, so it shouldn't determine anything else~

 

[Eternal Mametchi Fan]

What the heck, I accidentally said "men are better than women" instead of "women are better than men" in my post :I

I tend to avoid tumblr nowadays so I guess that's why I have never seen feminazis.

As I stated before LGBT+ supporters mostly don't claim gays/bisexuals/etc are better than straights (I have seen such claims but it's not common) so I don't see why feminism implies females are better than males.

And remember, tumblr isn't the whole world. The feminazis on tumblr are probably less than 1% of all feminists.

You say females think they're better than males, but from what I see in your post, you think males are better than females. You make seemingly biased claims that all females think they're better than males. And does being too proud of your own gender really mean you deserve discrimination? People often make excuses on why they don't support feminism but nothing justifies the unfair way females are treated around the world.

There are gay pride events! But any straight pride events? Nope. As said before, people focus on females because they're the ones who suffer from discrimination. Not having appreciation events for your gender is NOT discrimination.

People underestimate how much females are discriminated compared to males in this day and age. It can be hard for males to understand females' plight but there are lots of male feminists which is good.

As you can see, females can get into serious trouble for doing anything against males. TT_TT

 

[The Ultimate Doomer]

I dislike/hate chauvinism and misogyny, because it is just pointless discrimination. I think both genders are equal; there is no reason to act like one is better than the other.

But I am not entirely a "feminist", because then that seems to imply that females are the only gender people should care about, and ignores the bad stuff that also happen to males. "More than 40% of domestic violence victims are male" for example. But does anyone care about that? If feminists want equality, they should want to stop violence against people, not just females. Neither gender deserves to be attacked or discriminated against.

I suppose there are different types of feminists, however. There are the feminists who want gender equality, and that is good. But then there are the feminazis, the ones who only care about their own gender. As an example, feminazis complained about the game Call of Duty: Ghosts (a violent fictionalized war game that is played mostly by immature screaming kids). That game added female playable characters to the multiplayer, and now both the males and females in that game are treated equally. However, feminazis complained that the game has violence against females, which is offensive. Well gee, what about all the violence against the male characters as well? There are equal amounts of violence against both genders in it. So basically, the feminazis are complaining that the females are being treated equally, which means they apparently don't even want gender equality. :/

Chauvinism is bad, and feminazis are bad. Support equality instead.

 

[Awkwardo]

I consider myself a feminist.

I don't think it warrants an explanation.

 

[pyrotarukia]

Without feminism society wouldn't be what it is today.

Everyone that likes life like it is today should support feminism (not to be confused with extreme feminism which give it a bad name)

Just imagine living where women have no rights, no say, no life socially or in the work place... Feminism hasn't just effected what we can now do but also a shed loads of other things in history I wont go into it but if you're interested you should look further into the subject it's actually ridiculously interesting.

There is nothing wrong with feminism only the people that take it to the extreme and use it as an excuse

 

[Myiko]

What the heck, I accidentally said "men are better than women" instead of "women are better than men" in my post :I

I tend to avoid tumblr nowadays so I guess that's why I have never seen feminazis.

As I stated before LGBT+ supporters mostly don't claim gays/bisexuals/etc are better than straights (I have seen such claims but it's not common) so I don't see why feminism implies females are better than males.

And remember, tumblr isn't the whole world. The feminazis on tumblr are probably less than 1% of all feminists.

You say females think they're better than males, but from what I see in your post, you think males are better than females. You make seemingly biased claims that all females think they're better than males. And does being too proud of your own gender really mean you deserve discrimination? People often make excuses on why they don't support feminism but nothing justifies the unfair way females are treated around the world.

There are gay pride events! But any straight pride events? Nope. As said before, people focus on females because they're the ones who suffer from discrimination. Not having appreciation events for your gender is NOT discrimination.

People underestimate how much females are discriminated compared to males in this day and age. It can be hard for males to understand females' plight but there are lots of male feminists which is good.

As you can see, females can get into serious trouble for doing anything against males. TT_TT

Well only 1 thing, I said I prefer males over females, because of my personal experiences, but I don't believe one is better than the other.

I've been around ''extreme feminists'' almost all my life, I even had a feminazi teacher that failed every single male in the class :/

I don't have many girl friends, but only 2 of them claim themselves as feminist, the other ones are more like ''females are better' kind, and is funny because between my male friends that I have A LOT more, I can't think of a single one that says ''males are better'', what's more, I have some male friends that think girls are better than boys xD

Other than that your comment made think a little bit, and I understand what you mean now... The events and all that stuff are meant to show appreciation towards the people that have it harder than most, in this case females, so I'm kinda sorry for being stupid

 

[Bitbot]

I support equality. But where i live i never see something like gender discrimination.

 

[Soenattchi]

Woa, okay... first things first. I never thought I'd have to discuss feminism of all things here. But before I go ahead and post my response, my head is spinning because of some views I've seen presented in this thread, so in danger of sounding like a prick I'll adress them.

First things first; feminism stands for equallity of everyone, the sex dichotomy has been abandoned as a focus in the last... at least thirty if not more years. A feminist is someone who supports EQUAL RIGHTS for EVERYONE. Be it females, males, non-binary individuals, genderfluid individuals, transexual individuals, so on so forth. Feminism STARTED as a way to empower women and has since developed into something much, much greater.

No real feminist believes they're better than others. Feminazis on the other hand are mostly a thing of the internet and of deep and dark corners of it... like the aforementioned tumblr. Never bring tumblr up as an argument. The fact you've seen it on tumblr doesn't mean it goes down the same way in real life. Its sad that a movement that focuses on equallity has to fall victim to some loud obnoxious bigots that seem to think it's a great idea to just attack everyone who doesn't share their beliefs, including women that supposedly doesn't fall in their range of people that deserve to have the same right to expression as everyone else.

I believe in gender equality and everything, and I believe that women should have every right that men do. I just don't really know what to think about this whole new feminist movement.

Feminism is hardly something new. It's been around since the early 19th century.

I want equality but I don't like the term feminism, because even if it doesn't mean that, the spelling points to female supremacy, and that's something I don't like.

No it doesn't, feminist isn't about the supremacy of females, all things ending in -ism just indicate movements, think of impressionism in art, stoicism in philosophy, agnosticism in religion, so on so forth.

what makes me really mad is the way females are worshiped nowadays [...]

Right, just go listen to any popular song, watch any popular movie, read any popular book, or play any popular game. Women in them are most often singled out, stripped of power, objectified, victimized, treated as trophies OR evil wenches that harm and seduce without moral code. If you'd like a lengthy list of examples please ask because I'd be more than "happy" to provide you with one, and please don't "but not all [media of choice]" here, because I'm aware things exist with positive portrayals of women, the problem is that all of these amount to maybe a 5% of the entire mass of media. And again I call you to recall anything of the above and not tell me that males/most if not always often the protagonists of any tale aren't exemplified, called upon as the paradigm of morality/strength/courage, value friendship more, are the best leaders, make the best decisions and the fate of the world always rests in their hands.

(for example, there are events and concerts here in Spain that are meant to show appreciation to women, are there any male appreciation events? nope, not a single one...)

just because you don't have anything "in Spain" it doesn't mean things like that don't exist all around the world. In Greece we have an entire festival dedicated to male genitalia which celebrates men and fertility and how important men are to us and to my knowledge the Japanese also have a very similar festival. There also exists an international men's day same as there is one dedicated to women. Do your research and you'll find out there are plenty of festivities dedicated to men all around the world.

What makes me dislikes some females in someway is their attitude of ' 'we are always better than you''females bodies are much prettie!!r' '... and what makes it worse is that some minutes later they are complaining that everyone overuses the female body... seriously, if you are so proud of your body why you complain people are using it?? I just don't get and it makes me really sick

What makes 'me' really sick is that you, sir, believe it's okay for female images and bodies to be used just because women are proud of them? Excuse me, but you're entering a very, VERY, wrong territory there. Perhaps this is the worst argument I've ever heard if any. So... it's okay to "use" and possibly misrepresent in a way you don't want (as stated above) YOUR body because you're proud of it? So, should we also ban guys from walking around shirtless because that makes them "too proud" and they are "my god showing off their body"? Why is this less provocative than a girl showing off hers or being proud of her own?

Overall I just don't like girls complaining about males thinking they are better, I'm sorry but that's not the way to get to have equality...

So what is the way to equal rights if its not being vocal? What have all the years of not being vocal yielded?
I'm not saying you are trying to "attack" anyone directly, just that you swoop down into illogical fallacies and derogatory comments while doing so. If you believe in equal rights then you believe that all voices should be equal and should be heard. If you're angry at a group of women talk it out with them but not with ad hominem attacks on their character (you're too proud therefore you are wrong. there are women's festivals but not men's therefore you are wrong, you are exemplified but I am not therefore you are wrong) or by making straw man arguments (if feminists are hard then all men will be oppressed). Argue your points all you like, if you don't agree talk it out with them BUT don't try to get on top while doing so. That's what dialogue's purpose is supposed to be, after all. Adding a "please don't be offended" at the end just makes it worse, by the way. It's like saying "i'm talking about all females.... eeeeexcept you, so please don't argue my opinions".

Also to your later response, Myiko (wow, I'm sorry I must sound like a very annoying, chastising person and I'm sorry for that), because I read it after breaking down that wall of text, you say that it "made you think", and that's why feminism is important, that is why it's important for people to speak up and to be heard, that's what dialogue is for and that's why we should all exchange opinions.

And... I'm a feminist... in case that wasn't obvious enough. I support the equal rights of everyone regardless of sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion, color, race, beliefs, political opinions, so on and so forth. Sorry for the super long post.

edit: just wanted to leave this here: https://confusedcatsagainstfeminism.tumblr.com/ it's a tumblr that surfaced a while ago in which confused cats are against feminism... because they don't get it. Its a satirical way of looking at all the illogical arguments/excuses people bring up to be against feminism... for seemingly no reason at all.

 

[Pauly]

If you look at the feminist tag on tumblr, you'll see some photos posted by young, overweight, confident women.

The general feminist value is equality between sexes. To me, women showing their own personal beauty doesn't accomplish much other than equality within a sex.

 

[Kissa]

Just wanted to point out that the use of the term "Feminazi" is both disgusting and disrespectful to females, Jewish people, and Holocaust survivors. There are better terms one can use to express negative views towards feminism.

Apologies if this is considered some form of "mini-modding," and if it's not my place to point out being a newbie here, but it felt wrong to not say something.

That being said, I am very much a feminist. Feminism is my life, and I wouldn't give it up for anything. I'm sex-negative, anti-porn, anti-kink, and I prioritize females. <3

 

[The Ultimate Doomer]

Just wanted to point out that the use of the term "Feminazi" is both disgusting and disrespectful to females, Jewish people, and Holocaust survivors. There are better terms one can use to express negative views towards feminism.

**Notices my post contains "feminazi"** Oops...I can't edit it. ;~;

 

[NineMouse]

That being said, I am very much a feminist. Feminism is my life, and I wouldn't give it up for anything. I'm sex-negative, anti-porn, anti-kink, and I prioritize females. <3

I'm not sure whether sexual discussions are allowed here on TT, I'll have to look that up, but out of curiosity, why are you sex-negative, anti-porn and anti-kink? Is it because you believe that women are misrepresented or made into objects in pornography? Also, are you not approving of sex and kink even when consensual and properly handled (with safe words, thorough discussion of boundaries, proper aftercare, etc.)?

 

[Kissa]

I'm really bad at describing my views, so bear with me on this. I'll also try to keep this as PG as possible.

Sex-negative doesn't mean I'm anti-sex. It means I'm not sex positive, because sex positivity tends to lean towards kink, ignores asexuals, among other things I can't remember right now. (I have a really sucky memory.)

I'm anti-kink, because most kinks involve abuse or fetishization of things that shouldn't be fetishized. One's bedroom doesn't exist in a vacuum, and what you do there can have repercussions in the outside world. Also, I know of a LOT of women who have been abused in the kink community, and the community doesn't support them. Consent doesn't make things ethical.

I'm anti-porn, because most porn is abusive. You can never tell if the porn you watch is consensual (did all parties agree to everything?), and many porn actresses have stated that they agree to one thing, but when it comes down to it get pushed past their limits because their pay is withheld if they do not do what the directors want. Porn is evil.

 

[NineMouse]

I'm really bad at describing my views, so bear with me on this. I'll also try to keep this as PG as possible.

Sex-negative doesn't mean I'm anti-sex. It means I'm not sex positive, because sex positivity tends to lean towards kink, ignores asexuals, among other things I can't remember right now. (I have a really sucky memory.)

I'm anti-kink, because most kinks involve abuse or fetishization of things that shouldn't be fetishized. One's bedroom doesn't exist in a vacuum, and what you do there can have repercussions in the outside world. Also, I know of a LOT of women who have been abused in the kink community, and the community doesn't support them. Consent doesn't make things ethical.

I'm anti-porn, because most porn is abusive. You can never tell if the porn you watch is consensual (did all parties agree to everything?), and many porn actresses have stated that they agree to one thing, but when it comes down to it get pushed past their limits because their pay is withheld if they do not do what the directors want. Porn is evil.

Very interesting. I like reading up on other people's POVs when it comes to sex-related issues, especially when they contrast or differ somewhat from my own. I consider myself sex-positive, but I see it a little differently. For example, I don't think sex requires kink, although I don't condemn kink either (except for paraphilias which are harmful, obviously, such as pedophilia, which I don't see as kink anyway), and I think that kinks being handled in a healthy way (i.e. all parties are into the kink and it's harmless) can enhance already established and healthy relationships/marriages. I don't know much about the kink community but I would like to think that people within it that harm or abuse women or other genders are a minority of those involved. True and full consent should be (key word being *should*) ethical and withdrawable at any and every point without repercussion. Also, as a sex-positive person, I believe in people exploring their feelings regarding sexuality in a healthy and happy way, which includes asexuals exploring how they may feel about sex, relationships, aromanticism, etc.

I agree that a lot of porn is really bad, abusive, and I am usually skeptical of what may be going on behind the curtain with contracts and actor's/actress' rights and stipulations. I have found some that I feel comfortable with, however, such as pin-up type photos rather than videos and other types I won't go too into detail about here. I also feel that our country and most of the world is unfortunately so closed off on proper sex education that most people first learn about sex through porn, which isn't necessarily a good thing, but without porn we might have a ton of kids too curious and uninformed for their own good with only actual, real life sex (and pregnancy and STDs) to experiment with. So it's a really difficult landmine of an argument, whether porn can help or hurt more, for me.

Anyway, I hope all of this stuff isn't too graphic or off-topic...I read the rules and they didn't mention sex in them...I know there's a lot of kids on TT.

 

[Kissa]

Very interesting. I like reading up on other people's POVs

That's a good thing! :3 If it weren't for differing opinions, we'd all be the same. I don't have much else to say right now, so I'm going to excuse myself before I start preaching the benefits of a matriarchy, or something. (I'm trying really hard to keep my most controversial opinions to myself.)