Pro Choice or Pro Life?

[Miss Matchmaker]

I don't understand why so many people say this. Exactly where is your logic in this situation?
I mean, if someone was raped, then they're scarred for life. No question. Now let's say they get pregnant, and they don't want their baby for whatever reason. Maybe because they're too young or they don't want to be reminded of the father, etc. How much more traumatic is the experience going to be knowing that they just murdered their child? First they get raped, then they kill their baby. Doesn't sound like a win-win, now does it?

I completely agree with you. Me and my friend were talking about it today, and she thinks it will scar you for life if you have it, and would definitely abort it. She said every day you see yourself in the mirror, every time you see that baby, it will remind you of the rape, and not be healthy.

I said if I was raped, I wouldn't kill it - I would have it and not be unselfish, and she called me ignorant and said I don't know the pain it causes.

Why would she know, she was never raped?

It's ridiculous how ignorant people call others ignorant because they are less selfish. Killing someone won't make the rape any less scarring.

 

I wanted to ask. If you were raped, would you keep the baby?

 

[GotchiGirl96]

I wanted to ask. If you were raped, would you keep the baby?[/font]

Absolutely. I'd definitely have that baby, and if I felt as though I couldn't take care of it, I would hand it off to my parents until I was ready. I know they would support me. If all else fails, adoption is always another option. But I would never abort.

 

[Cinderpelt]

I wanted to ask. If you were raped, would you keep the baby?

Always. No question about it.

Just because I was raped doesn't give me the right to murder someone else!

And besides... abortion isn't exactly a pretty process. Not something that I would choose to go through!

@ GG96 - My parents would neeeeever keep the baby for me, they'd actually probably kick me out once they found out I was pregnant. But I do agree, I would never abort, I would probably go adoption.

 

[Sweet Kandi]

 

I wanted to ask. If you were raped, would you keep the baby?

I wouldn't have it. Period. The aftermath trauma of being raped is horrible enough. I would never put myself or want anyone else to put themselves in the position to be constantly reminded of what happened.

 

[TamaMum]

I wanted to ask. If you were raped, would you keep the baby?[/font]

Please, let's try to keep the topic focussed on Pro-Choice or Pro Life?

(not specualtion about what you would or wouldn't do if you were raped)

 

[Emmelyn]

Pro-Choice, so we make mistakes who doesn't? That's like saying "Oh no, you dropped out of high school because you were lazy WELL TOO BAD we're never give you another chance again".

Besides when you abort its not like the fetus has any thoughts or feelings, its just there, a parasite that eats your food and will eventually cause you pain.

And yes the girl who got pregnant in the first place isn't the brightest but we all learn from mistakes don't we? (at least i hope we do <&lt. I mean if its a teenage mother who can't afford to bring up the child much less give it a decent life, why you would ever want a child to go through that? And adoption okay, maybe if its lucky and doesn't cycle around the system till it is 18 or end up with abusive parents or parents who just want the kid for money.

 

[`Krystal]

^ Yes. Exactly.

That is a really low statement. :I

 

[Libra]

Dear Lord.Life lesson?

Just because you get pregnant doesn't mean you didn't use protection.

There is nothing 100% effective against pregnancy except abstinence.

I think making them keep it as a 'life lesson' is a form of torture and is going against her human rights.

[SIZE=14pt]Apparently you haven't read my other post. I am very well aware that there are young women that have enough brains to make their men wear raincoats before jumping in bed and are on birth control ( I had a near and dear friend in that situation ) and she still had a baby form in her and I respect her for keeping the baby any way. My point was there are stupid girls out there that don't even bother using protection. Those are the ones needing life lessons one such as responsibility. It's something that having a pet to take care of when they were younger didn't fix ( that or too loose parents or poor role models. Those seem to be in abundance ). Besides most of the girls I see I have no pity for if they have a baby. If they have their reason, such as busted protection or otherwise then abortion I can understand, but if you dun bother to protect against pregnancy you deserve the bed you made yourself[/SIZE]

 

[GotchiGirl96]

Pro-Choice, so we make mistakes who doesn't? That's like saying "Oh no, you dropped out of high school because you were lazy WELL TOO BAD we're never give you another chance again".
Besides when you abort its not like the fetus has any thoughts or feelings, its just there, a parasite that eats your food and will eventually cause you pain.

And yes the girl who got pregnant in the first place isn't the brightest but we all learn from mistakes don't we? (at least i hope we do <&lt. I mean if its a teenage mother who can't afford to bring up the child much less give it a decent life, why you would ever want a child to go through that? And adoption okay, maybe if its lucky and doesn't cycle around the system till it is 18 or end up with abusive parents or parents who just want the kid for money.

Yeahno. A fetus is not a parasite. I'm disgusted that anyone would consider it as such.

 

[Cinderpelt]

Pro-Choice, so we make mistakes who doesn't? That's like saying "Oh no, you dropped out of high school because you were lazy WELL TOO BAD we're never give you another chance again".
Besides when you abort its not like the fetus has any thoughts or feelings, its just there, a parasite that eats your food and will eventually cause you pain.

And yes the girl who got pregnant in the first place isn't the brightest but we all learn from mistakes don't we? (at least i hope we do <&lt. I mean if its a teenage mother who can't afford to bring up the child much less give it a decent life, why you would ever want a child to go through that? And adoption okay, maybe if its lucky and doesn't cycle around the system till it is 18 or end up with abusive parents or parents who just want the kid for money.

Just because you're pregnant and not ready for the baby does not mean that your life is ending. You can still have other chances to pursue the dreams in your life. You just have a extra responsibilities that now need to be taken care of. And you're not number one priority anymore. You now have to account for another being.

The fetus may not have tangible thoughts and feelings during the prenatal development, however it has all the potential in the world. The potential to cure cancer, the potential to be president, the potential to be a loving mother or father. The potential to enjoy life and be a competent member of society. I mean, it does parasitically feed off of the mother and grow off of her nutrients, but I wouldn't exactly qualify the fetus as a parasite.

You obviously don't have much value for human life at all, and you seem like a terrible pessimist. Just because you don't think that the world is worth it or valuable doesn't mean your child would think the same. Maybe you see the world as bleak and cold, and your child would see a world of dreams and opportunities. But all of that doesn't matter, because you aren't even giving the child a chance to make what they want of the world. You aren't giving them the chance to decide for themselves, you're deciding for them.

The world can be a hard place, there is no doubt about it. But there's also a large amount of the world that is GOOD. And you're taking away all of that and murdering the future of the world by having an abortion. You're not God, you don't get to decide who lives and who dies. Life is a gift, and you need to be more gracious and appreciative.

 

[Ripcurl]

Pro-Choice, so we make mistakes who doesn't? That's like saying "Oh no, you dropped out of high school because you were lazy WELL TOO BAD we're never give you another chance again".
Besides when you abort its not like the fetus has any thoughts or feelings, its just there, a parasite that eats your food and will eventually cause you pain.

And yes the girl who got pregnant in the first place isn't the brightest but we all learn from mistakes don't we? (at least i hope we do <&lt. I mean if its a teenage mother who can't afford to bring up the child much less give it a decent life, why you would ever want a child to go through that? And adoption okay, maybe if its lucky and doesn't cycle around the system till it is 18 or end up with abusive parents or parents who just want the kid for money.

Yes people make mistakes, but they also need to deal with the consequences of their actions. If a girl gets pregnant the answer is not to murder her child so that she won't have to face the mistake that she made.

Children are not parasites. I can't believe that you would say such a thing! Lets say someone, God forbid, murdered you and told the court "Oh she was just a big parasite eating her parent's food and taking up space. I did her parents a favor. Good riddance." Would that hold up as a valid justification for murdering an innocent person? No it wouldn't. In fact, if someone were to confess to murder NOTHING could justify it. Nothing can get them off the hook. So why is it that we can legally murder babies and people try to justify this murder by using lame excuses?

You admit yourself that the baby is a human child. If we can't kill the baby after it is born why should we be allowed to kill it beforehand?

I really don't understand your logic with the whole adoption thing. You're basically saying "oh the child might possibly get abused so lets just kill it". Any child has a chance of getting abused anywhere with any family. Heck, murdering the kid IS CHILD ABUSE.

 

[GotchiGirl96]

Just because you're pregnant and not ready for the baby does not mean that your life is ending. You can still have other chances to pursue the dreams in your life. You just have a extra responsibilities that now need to be taken care of. And you're not number one priority anymore. You now have to account for another being.
The fetus may not have tangible thoughts and feelings during the prenatal development, however it has all the potential in the world. The potential to cure cancer, the potential to be president, the potential to be a loving mother or father. The potential to enjoy life and be a competent member of society. I mean, it does parasitically feed off of the mother and grow off of her nutrients, but I wouldn't exactly qualify the fetus as a parasite.

You obviously don't have much value for human life at all, and you seem like a terrible pessimist. Just because you don't think that the world is worth it or valuable doesn't mean your child would think the same. Maybe you see the world as bleak and cold, and your child would see a world of dreams and opportunities. But all of that doesn't matter, because you aren't even giving the child a chance to make what they want of the world. You aren't giving them the chance to decide for themselves, you're deciding for them.

The world can be a hard place, there is no doubt about it. But there's also a large amount of the world that is GOOD. And you're taking away all of that and murdering the future of the world by having an abortion. You're not God, you don't get to decide who lives and who dies. Life is a gift, and you need to be more gracious and appreciative.

Yes, exactly. I couldn't agree more.

 

[GotchiGirl96]

Yes people make mistakes, but they also need to deal with the consequences of their actions. If a girl gets pregnant the answer is not to murder her child so that she won't have to face the mistake that she made.
Children are not parasites. I can't believe that you would say such a thing! Lets say someone, God forbid, murdered you and told the court "Oh she was just a big parasite eating her parent's food and taking up space. I did her parents a favor. Good riddance." Would that hold up as a valid justification for murdering an innocent person? No it wouldn't. In fact, if someone were to confess to murder NOTHING could justify it. Nothing can get them off the hook. So why is it that we can legally murder babies and people try to justify this murder by using lame excuses?

You admit yourself that the baby is a human child. If we can't kill the baby after it is born why should we be allowed to kill it beforehand?

I really don't understand your logic with the whole adoption thing. You're basically saying "oh the child might possibly get abused so lets just kill it". Any child has a chance of getting abused anywhere with any family. Heck, murdering the kid IS CHILD ABUSE.

And once again, I agree 100%.

 

[Fayiirah]

Yes people make mistakes, but they also need to deal with the consequences of their actions. If a girl gets pregnant the answer is not to murder her child so that she won't have to face the mistake that she made.
Children are not parasites. I can't believe that you would say such a thing! Lets say someone, God forbid, murdered you and told the court "Oh she was just a big parasite eating her parent's food and taking up space. I did her parents a favor. Good riddance." Would that hold up as a valid justification for murdering an innocent person? No it wouldn't. In fact, if someone were to confess to murder NOTHING could justify it. Nothing can get them off the hook. So why is it that we can legally murder babies and people try to justify this murder by using lame excuses?

You admit yourself that the baby is a human child. If we can't kill the baby after it is born why should we be allowed to kill it beforehand?

I really don't understand your logic with the whole adoption thing. You're basically saying "oh the child might possibly get abused so lets just kill it". Any child has a chance of getting abused anywhere with any family. Heck, murdering the kid IS CHILD ABUSE.

There's a difference between killing a baby and an abortion.

The foetus is, quite simply, nothing but a clump of cells. The brain isn't developed until three months in the womb.

A foetus is not a baby. It is a parasite.

Let's look up the definition of parasite, shall we?

par⋅a⋅site  /ˈpærəˌsaɪt/ [par-uh-sahyt]

–noun

1.  an organism that lives on or in an organism of another species, known as the host, from the body of which it obtains nutriment.

2.  a person who receives support, advantage, or the like, from another or others without giving any useful or proper return, as one who lives on the hospitality of others.

By those definitions, a foetus is a parasite. It lives in the womb and takes nutrients from the host, it's mother.

By the second definition, a baby is also a parasite.

But, again, the difference between killing the all ready born and a baby is that babies have brains. They can think, they have emotions, et cetra.

A foetus? It has no brain, no emotions and cannot think. Many times the woman's own body will just get rid of the foetus because it views it as, guess what, a parasite. Is that murder too?

 

[Ripcurl]

There's a difference between killing a baby and an abortion.The foetus is, quite simply, nothing but a clump of cells. The brain isn't developed until three months in the womb.

A foetus is not a baby. It is a parasite.

Let's look up the definition of parasite, shall we?

By those definitions, a foetus is a parasite. It lives in the womb and takes nutrients from the host, it's mother.

By the second definition, a baby is also a parasite.

But, again, the difference between killing the all ready born and a baby is that babies have brains. They can think, they have emotions, et cetra.

A foetus? It has no brain, no emotions and cannot think. Many times the woman's own body will just get rid of the foetus because it views it as, guess what, a parasite. Is that murder too?

Oh boy.

Alright, since you want to get technical with the definitions here, I can do that. According to that first definition, the baby is not a parasite because the baby is human, the same species as the mother. The definition refers to a parasite as an organism that lives in or on an organism of another species.

What you are doing is just trying to dehumanize a baby by calling it a parasite, a clump of cells, a fetus, and saying things like it can't think and so on and so on. A fetus is a human being. The term just refers to a human in a particular stage of development, in this case the fetal stage of development.

Fetus—A human being from about the eighth week of life up until birth

Being able to think and having a brain does not determine a person's humanity or lack there of. There are people in this world that are brain dead and can't think for themselves. Would it be alright to murder them too? No. Because they are human and the fact that they can't think for themselves doesn't make them any less of a human being. Besides, unborn children DO have brains and measurable brain waves. (Brainwaves are detected in babies in as little as the first six weeks of gestation, which is way ahead of three months.)

The point is simply this: A fetus is a human baby. Abortion brutally murders an innocent human being and is very, very wrong.

 

[Fayiirah]

I apologise, I misread the first definition.

What you are doing is just trying to dehumanize a baby

I'm "dehumanising" a foetus.

by calling it a parasite, a clump of cells, a fetus, and saying things like it can't think and so on and so on.

A foetus isjust a clump of cells and it cannot think. I'm just stating facts here.

Being able to think and having a brain does not determine a person's humanity or lack there of.

IMO, yes it does.

can't think for themselves doesn't make them any less of a human being.

They still have brain waves, no?

Besides, unborn children DO have brains and measurable brain waves.

I didn't say they didn't.

(Brainwaves are detected in babies in as little as the first six weeks of gestation, which is way ahead of three months.)

Sources, please.

The point is simply this: A fetus is a human baby. Abortion brutally murders an innocent human being and is very, very wrong.

The point is simply this: A foetus isn't a human or a baby. Abortion isn't brutal or murder and is very, very fine.

 

[Emmelyn]

Ooo I love how because I'm pro choice I'm labeled as a cold blooded pessimist who doesn't care for humans. Way to judge ^^! You know i also kill little puppies and kitties when I'm bored and this must be true because I'm a cold blooded person who cares for now one. GASP.

Oh well, It's not like anyone can change anyone else's mind if they're both stubborn. Just like religion, you just can't get everyone to agree to one way of thinking. Besides as long as it's not illegal to get an abortion you can't really stop anyone.

Either way, I still think people should have a choice as to what they want to do. Just saying that a women HAS to have the child no matter what the circumstance is taking away as much of her rights as the rights of the child who she may or may not want to abort. Also I think society cares just a tad bit more for the rights of born person vs. unborn (probably why abortion is still legal, just my thinking, i don't really know ).

There are also outside factors as to reasons to abort/not abort. For instance I know my mother would come an inch to killing me if she found out I was pregnant and then just kick me out of the house with no where to go. Then what? Live on the streets and have the kid then live in a shelter? And i know some parents who would be incredibly supportive and help raise the child.

Also my view is probably skewed a bit because I take EVERY precaution to NOT get pregnant so if I do I would just be like WTF? I mean I didn't want a child, a have no intention of having a child, i did everything to try and prevent having a child, but because it happened anyways i don't have a say to have it or not? And i realize that some people do just have reckless sex and well that was just stupid on their part.

I also love how people think there is a great demand for children and that they are just flying out of the adoption centers into good homes. Not saying some don't end up lucky, but if EVERY person who had an abortion couldn't and had the baby and put it up for adoption I mean how many of them would find a home? Okay did a random search, So about 127,630 children are adopted per year (and that's still on the high end of the spectrum). While there are 4,000 abortions performed per day, 4000 x 365 =1,460,000. Now tell me where all the excess children go to?

 

[Fayiirah]

On the topic of adoption, if so effing hard to get a child.

It takes years of work, papers and testing.

And guess what? Are you single, gay, not married, or older than 35? Too bad! You can't adopt! Hahahaha.

Take Elton John for instance, he wanted to adopt this poor, starving, AIDs ridden child from some third world country. He couldn't. Do you know why?

He's not married, he's gay and he's too old.

Does it matter that he'd proved a great home for the child?

No.

Does it matter that he can proved the child with absolutely everything he'd ever need for the next 100 years?

No.

With adoption, all people want is the oh-so kewt, ickle, dawlin' babies. If you're older than six,you have virtually no chance at ever being adopted.

Once you turn 18? See ya. You're out on the streets.

Forcing a child into an orphanage is way crueller than aborting it.

The adoption agencies are over crowded enough as it is!

Besides, what if you were raped? Do you really expect the woman to carry the child to term?

If you do, that's cruel.

What about the women who use protection and still get pregnant.

You can get pregnant even if your tubes are tied.

No, I don't condone abortion as means of a contraceptive of sorts, but I would much rather the baby be aborted than go up for adoption or live with a mother who parties day and night.

Being pro-choice doesn't mean you're anti-life. It means you're pro-choice.

It's all about the choice.

Taking away that choice violates our rights.

Even if abortion did become illegal, women would use coat hangers as a means of aborting.

They did in the past, and the future would be no different.

 

[Sweet Kandi]

Ooo I love how because I'm pro choice I'm labeled as a cold blooded pessimist who doesn't care for humans. Way to judge ^^! You know i also kill little puppies and kitties when I'm bored and this must be true because I'm a cold blooded person who cares for now one. GASP.
Oh well, It's not like anyone can change anyone else's mind if they're both stubborn. Just like religion, you just can't get everyone to agree to one way of thinking. Besides as long as it's not illegal to get an abortion you can't really stop anyone.

Either way, I still think people should have a choice as to what they want to do. Just saying that a women HAS to have the child no matter what the circumstance is taking away as much of her rights as the rights of the child who she may or may not want to abort. Also I think society cares just a tad bit more for the rights of born person vs. unborn (probably why abortion is still legal, just my thinking, i don't really know ).

There are also outside factors as to reasons to abort/not abort. For instance I know my mother would come an inch to killing me if she found out I was pregnant and then just kick me out of the house with no where to go. Then what? Live on the streets and have the kid then live in a shelter? And i know some parents who would be incredibly supportive and help raise the child.

Also my view is probably skewed a bit because I take EVERY precaution to NOT get pregnant so if I do I would just be like WTF? I mean I didn't want a child, a have no intention of having a child, i did everything to try and prevent having a child, but because it happened anyways i don't have a say to have it or not? And i realize that some people do just have reckless sex and well that was just stupid on their part.

I also love how people think there is a great demand for children and that they are just flying out of the adoption centers into good homes. Not saying some don't end up lucky, but if EVERY person who had an abortion couldn't and had the baby and put it up for adoption I mean how many of them would find a home? Okay did a random search, So about 127,630 children are adopted per year (and that's still on the high end of the spectrum). While there are 4,000 abortions performed per day, 4000 x 365 =1,460,000. Now tell me where all the excess children go to?

I agree with you and Fayiirah completely.

The way people are talking in here is as if Pro-choice automatically means we only believe in abortion. No.

Pro-Choice, hence the word CHOICE. The choice to abort or KEEP.

I base my opinions on how I would personally feel. If I grew up to find out I was the product of rape, a broken condom or reckless sex, I would want to die, and would wish my mother HAD gotten an abortion, for her sake and mine.

This thread seems to be getting a little too heated. Every time someone posts something someone else doesn't like, they get jumped on by people screaming, "oh my god you're so cruel!!"

I understand everyone has the right to post their opinions and views, but to act like someone who has a different opinion than yourself is Satan's kin is a bit over the top.

Is it really that hard to think to yourself, "Ok, I don't agree with that, but that's their opinion" and move on? Is it really necessary to jump down people's throats just because they think differently?

This doesn't even look like a debate or discussion anymore. It's turned into a thread of ridicule and name-calling.

 

[TamaMum]

Okay - some very strong views held on both sides of the debate.

This topic has been thoroughly discussed from pretty much every viewpoint and angle and we are simply re-reading arguments both for and against, but now they're being made to score points off others who are not of the same mind.

No matter how strongly anyone feels about the subject, it is not appropriate to ridicule or insult another person or their point of view (site rules). I think everyone is going to have to accept that there are always going to be differences in what you believe is right or wrong and what you believe is acceptable in today's society.

On that note, I am going to close this thread.

Thanks to everyone for keeping it mature and sensible (most of the time) :kuribotchi:

*closed*