Kelly_Clarkson8
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[SIZE=7pt]^ Oh, I see =][/SIZE]
So, where did the whole 'devil worshiping' thing come from?
So, where did the whole 'devil worshiping' thing come from?
god.
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Aerostella
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Sorry, I'm not a believer. I stick to science.
Smallquailrooster
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*opening comment removed*
Athiests don't believe in either god OR the devil. And they certainly don't worship either. Athieism isn't a type of religion. Athiests are people who do not believe in any religion.
*closing comment removed*
Edit by TamaMum:
I have removed two provocative comments that seem to have been posted because of a misunderstanding about the (quoted) question being asked.
Apart from the two removed comments the info you gave was accurate and appropriate.
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TamaMum
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The whole "devil worshipping" accusation was from a Christian boy on the members school bus who thought (incorrectly) that an atheist is a "Satan Worshipper".
Atheists don't worship anything because they don't believe in a "higher" spiritual being such as a god. Since they don't believe in or worship a god, they also don't believe in a devil either - so how the heck can they be a "Statan Worshipper"? It's just not logically possible.
But like all people, atheists still have the ability to tell a moral right from a moral wrong and they still have the ability to politely ignore ignorant remarks directed towards them ^_^
Let's make this clearer. The boy was not just expressing his opinion in a rude way.
He was showing his ignorance.
Clearly someone has told him wrong info or he just hasn't yet learned about any other religion or belief system... which means he is at a disadvantage compared to others who know something about their own beliefs and something about other belief systems.
Referring to your previous question (already answered by two other members) - feel free to ask a question like that. You phrased it fine.
The only dumb question is the one you don't ask
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Kelly_Clarkson8
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[SIZE=7pt]^ Thanks so much you guys [/SIZE]
I am now a little bit smarter! 8D lol
[/SIZE]I am now a little bit smarter! 8D lol
bratztroxg
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Science and God don't work against each other, you know.
I believe that God created Science, just as he created everything else! And I believe it is what he used to create the world, us, etc.
~bratztroxg
Um yes they do. Science is the complete opposite of Religion, that's why most scientists are atheists. If you believe that God created the world in the way that science explains it, then, I'm sorry to tell you that you are an atheist. I don't have anything against people who want to believe in god but I have a problem with organised Religion, particularly when people try to convert other people to their religion. This just shows that people don't respect other people's beliefs or when religious people think that religious rules are more important than fundamental human values (example: love, respect for life, respect for diversity, showing a sense of compassion towards other people no matter what). This is what Jesus' teaching were all about, he went against many of the religious rules of his times in order to show people the importance of love and compassion. Also I would like to point out that Religion doesn't have anything to do with values. Atheists can and do have strong moral values. The topics of religion and values don't have anything to do with each other. We would be living in a terrible world if we strictly based our values on what's written in a book (think: witch hunts, the crusades, persecution of homosexuals etc)
I am an atheist because I refuse to follow a set of rules simply because they are written in the bible. I have strong moral values which i follow, not because i want to please god or because i'm afraid to go hell, but rather because i understand the importance of the values that I follow: because I want this to be a better world and simply believing in God is not going to make that happen.
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tamaw/pants
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Woah woah woah - That is such a huge and wrong generalization there! There are MANY Christian scientists and to say that anyone smart and has great interest and knowledge in science - which in essence is what you're saying - is an atheist is totally untrue.
To me, saying that they are polar opposites is quite ridiculous. Somethings you just can't 'prove' with science and we actually use science to back up our beliefs. I mean, you can't make a science experiment where you still something into the clouds and say "God is real" but based on the information we've gotten from our religion, we can use science to say 'hm, that makes sense'.
And remember that evolution and the Big Bang and how we came here isn't the only thing science deals with, obviously. There's soo much more than that and if it was just strictly science=evolution than yes, that would go against Christianity. But it's not and I believe science actually points to God.
@About Jesus : Jesus went against some of the religious 'rules' of the day because that's all they were - a lot of it was strictly going through the motions and he showed that that wasn't all there was to it. It wasn't that he disliked organized religion - it was to get rid of the simply ritualistic mindset many had in that day and to focus on what it really was.
With Christianity, it isn't all about following rules 'just cuz' - it's about having a relationship with our Creator, bottom line. And I personally believe science points to a creator whether it be the God of Abraham, Allah, Flying Spagetti Monster - whatever. I then choose to believe in Christianity based on the information I have found in the Bible, how it is true and can be backed up and also through personal experience as well.
I hope you don't read this on attack - I just had a lot to cover in reply to your post so we could both understand and learn eachothers' side on this issue.
mousie14999
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I have a bad feeling about all this. I most deffinetly DO believe in God, and heaven, I'm just not ALL Christian. The bible is to be learned from, not worshipped. And if we didn't go to heaven, where else would we go? (Not talking about down there) And for those of you who have to see it to believe it, well you can't see it untill you believe it! Those people frustrate me.
Aerostella
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I respect your beliefs, but I personally think it sounds ridiculous that god created science.Science and God don't work against each other, you know.
I believe that God created Science, just as he created everything else! And I believe it is what he used to create the world, us, etc.
~bratztroxg
To me the whole "god" thing is just another fairytale.
I said MOST, not all, scientists are atheists. Although it strikes me as quite odd when I hear about religious scientists. And I still stand by what I said: Science and religion are complete opposites. Religion is based on Faith (believing without reason, rationalization and proof) while scientific knowledge is strictly based on hard solid proof and results of numerous experiments.
It's true that there are many things that science has not yet explained, but just because science cannot prove something doesn't mean that god exists.
All religions are about following rules. It's true that many of these rules are important for a society to function properly (example: don't steal, don't kill anyone etc). But when these are put into a religious context, that's all they will ever be: rules. They aren't real moral values because people feel that they need to follow these rules so as not to go to hell or to prison...what kind of values are those? Like I said, real moral values are based on love and compassion and not on the bible. The bible says that it's ok to have slaves, would you follow that rule?
tamaw/pants
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Where do you get this information saying that 'most' are atheists? I can say there are many religious ones based on fact but to say most are this or that is a very bold statement that really can't be backed up.
Sure, obviously we have faith but it's not rationalized. I have faith in my God because the more I learn in science, the more I am sure it wasn't just by chance. I love science - I'm interested in science. I'll probably be some sort of scientist and even through one high school biology course am I blown away by the complexity of the world around me and I just can't see how it fits any other way.
Again, my beliefs are not solely based on blind faith.
And I'm not saying that just because science hasn't proven it that's my proof God exists - I'm talking about things that science has proven and things been shown by science. For example, the complexity of the cell, DNA, a better understanding of the human body, the start of life and much more in my opinion points to a creator.
All of the religions that I have heard of, besides Christianity, is based on works by the person. Only Christianity does it take our works from the equation. We have to realize we never can be good enough and then accept that we need someone then to save us. It really has nothing to do with our works though obviously if we become a Christian we should strive to do good because we love God and love others but again, that's not the basis.
I'd like to see where it specifically says we can own slaves. I'm sure you'll pull something out of where Jesus was talking about slaves and how slaves should treat their owners and how owners should treat our slaves and so I'll already answer that one.
Slavery was much different in those days than it was in America and you must understand the context and the time period. People would sell themselves to pay off a debt that they owed. It wasn't just 'you're dark therefore you're lower than me so I'll force you to work and I own you know' - it was under different circumstances. AND, when Jesus was speaking about how to treat eachother, he couldn't just come in and say "OKAY, NO MORE SLAVERY" because what a culture shock! They couldn't ban all slavery in one day, could they? Of course not. It took time and what Jesus said actually protected the slaves more so then saying "do what you want, it's okay".
If you were talking about another verse, I'd love to discuss it.
TigerLily013
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As I've stated somewhere in this topic before, I'm agnostic, which in basic terms means I believe in a higher power/being/whatever is out there (I don't doubt that since we can't be the most powerful beings around)...but who the higher power is or what it is...is something I will find out when it's my time to cross over from the living. When it's my time to find out, I'll find out, but I can not conclude who or what the higher power is until then.
I think it's pretty fair to saying seeing it to believe it applies here, but in a different way that what you're laying out. That's just my 2 cents.
I was mostly referring to these verses:
and this:
The first verse is practically saying that people were allowed to buy slaves and the children of the slaves were the property of the buyer...it doesn't look like there was much choice for the slaves doesn't it? The second verse goes into some silly technicalities, and practically states that it's totally fine if you kill your slave by beating him/her. I don't see any of the free will you were talking about.When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NA
Well there you go, I couldn't have said it better myself. The bible was written thousands of years ago and the world has changed so much since then...so why do people even try to apply the rules written in an old book to our modern society? That sounds like disaster to me.
Well in America people are afraid to say that they're atheists because they would be practically committing social suicide, but in Europe, where Religion is not given so much importance, practically all Scientists are atheists simply because, as I've already said, Religion is the total opposite of science. Religion tells you to believe in things without questioning them, science is all about proof. I live in Europe and over here its a known fact that most Scientists are Atheists.
So practically you're saying that only christians are able to do real good because they love god? Are you saying that if our good deeds are not motivated by god then those good deeds aren't really good deeds? And if this is not what you are saying doesn't this prove that religion is completely irrelevant to real human values and ergo people don't need religion to be good? I consider myself a good person but i don't believe in god.
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TamaMum
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* treads very carefully over egg-shells*
I think some ppl are over simplifying things and taking things out of context and inferring things that they should not be inferring
@ helios: I think you've misinterpreted a statement and I think you should read it again.
I can see nothing in that statement that even "practically" says that only Christians can do this and there's nothing in that statement that suggests that non-Christians are not able to do good deeds.
Any person is capable of learning good moral judgement and following it in their lives.
From what I can see and from what I hear, Religion gives people a lot more than good moral judgement.
You state that good moral judgement and actions are sufficient for you to lead a fulfilling life which is fine and I respect that totally.
Others state that their beliefs and their faith allow them to lead a fulfilling life and I respect that too.
I am always uncomfortable with the implication from anyone that their own beliefs are what everyone else should be satisfied with.
I am also uncomfortable when I see people judging others based on their own moral values without any apparent ability to look at a matter from different view points.
We are all different and we all have different needs. Tolerance and Respect, guys... tolerance and respect
I think some ppl are over simplifying things and taking things out of context and inferring things that they should not be inferring
@ helios: I think you've misinterpreted a statement and I think you should read it again.
I can see nothing in that statement that even "practically" says that only Christians can do this and there's nothing in that statement that suggests that non-Christians are not able to do good deeds.
Any person is capable of learning good moral judgement and following it in their lives.
From what I can see and from what I hear, Religion gives people a lot more than good moral judgement.
You state that good moral judgement and actions are sufficient for you to lead a fulfilling life which is fine and I respect that totally.
Others state that their beliefs and their faith allow them to lead a fulfilling life and I respect that too.
I am always uncomfortable with the implication from anyone that their own beliefs are what everyone else should be satisfied with.
I am also uncomfortable when I see people judging others based on their own moral values without any apparent ability to look at a matter from different view points.
We are all different and we all have different needs. Tolerance and Respect, guys... tolerance and respect
bratztroxg
Well-known member
Disagreed
Firstly, let me start off by making my point very clear.
I AM 100% CHRISTIAN, AND 0% ATHEIST.
I won't try and define your beliefs, but I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't try and define mine. I've been a Christian since I was around 7 years old, and I'm a very strong Christian as well.
Secondly, there are many Christian scientists out there. In fact, my grandfather is one, so I should know. Science is NOT the opposite of religion. Religion works many times out of Science, but it can work with it too, and religion can help explain it.
And lastly, no, we WOULDN'T be living a terrible life by obeying the Bible. It's life's instruction manual to us from Jesus and think how excellent life would be if we DID stick to the rules of loving each other, not gossiping or saying bad things, etc. There would be no "persecution of the homosexuals" or "witch hunts", as you so bluntly put it, because, as a Christian, I respect homosexuals. To me, I believe it is a sin, but we are ALL sinners. Each and every one of us sin each and every day, and it would be hypocritical of me to view gays/bis as anything different. And if everyone was really loving and forgiving, there would be no "witch hunts". In fact, if everyone lived by the Bible, there would be no attempts at witchcraft anyway!
~bratztroxg
bratztroxg
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I would like to see the exact quoted verse from the Bible where you got that from, please. Where in the Bible does it give all Christians the "thumbs-up" to slavery? Or do you have no proof to back this up?
~bratztroxg
Sweet Kandi
Well-known member
He already posted the verse in his previous post.
(Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
How exactly can religion explain science? Please tell me because you have stated this more than once but never really explained how religion can explain science...there i was thinking that scientific experiments defined scientific knowledge and not fairy-tales written in old books.
I believe you when you say that there are many religious scientists, I agreed with you on this in previous posts. Although it seems very strange to me how scientists can allow themselves to believe in things without any proof.
It seems like you are a person who appreciates science, well let me tell you that there is a big probability that you will soon grow out of your religious beliefs. It happened to me. I was born and raised in a christian society, most of my family members and friends are christians but I still managed to realize what really matters in life. You said that you won't try to define my beliefs and it seems that most Americans don't really understand what atheists believe in, I've heard people saying in posts that atheists don't believe in anything or that they are devil-worshipers, so let me list some of the things that i believe in: love, truth, beauty, family, marriage, friendship, peace, justice, democracy, free-speech, happiness, science, knowledge, freedom; i believe that humans are able to do good out of the goodness of their own heart...i beleive in all these things, i simply refuse to believe in supernatural magics...That's practically a direct quote from Richard Dawkins, I know, but I've believed in these things before I even knew about Richard Dawkins.
You say that you respect homosexuals but still manage to admit that their very existence is a sin, what kind of respect is that? And all the 'witches' burned at the stake died because of religion, that's why I said that sometimes religion overshadows the values of love. Also, might I add that witches DON'T EXIST!! Sure there are people who think that they are witches, but there are also people who believe that they are Elvis...you see where I'm getting at?
Good thing the bible never said anything against Elvis.
Mamitchi465
Well-known member
I just started confirmation about 4 weeks ago and im learing alot..but to me i believe there is something alot greater after this life. There is this famous quote thats one of my favorites :]
"When you go to a resteraunt and the waiter brings you the food you have ordered, where did that food come from? Did it just magically appear from something? No, a cook made it..but do you always get to see that cook? Do you have proof the cook cooked your food? Just like God created us, though we do not always get to see him in our lifetime"
Idk i just felt like sharing
"When you go to a resteraunt and the waiter brings you the food you have ordered, where did that food come from? Did it just magically appear from something? No, a cook made it..but do you always get to see that cook? Do you have proof the cook cooked your food? Just like God created us, though we do not always get to see him in our lifetime"
Idk i just felt like sharing
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